Rent-Stabilized Renos - Does the LL Need Our Permission?
So, we have a stabilized apartment with a fairly gross kitchen. After the LL saying we could renovate it ourselves, he suddenly decided (upon further reflection on his ability to raise our rent) to do it himself, with his crew of… uh… artisans. We’re a little pissy about the sudden switch and the corresponding loss…
So, we have a stabilized apartment with a fairly gross kitchen. After the LL saying we could renovate it ourselves, he suddenly decided (upon further reflection on his ability to raise our rent) to do it himself, with his crew of… uh… artisans.
We’re a little pissy about the sudden switch and the corresponding loss of quality and increase in rent, but if it means the kitchen is actually usable, we’re probably fine with it.
My question is this- we want some sort of ballpark figure from him of what the reno will cost, so we can determine if the corresponding bump in rent is really worth it to us. If he gives us a number that’s ridiculous (or refuses to give a #) can we refuse to let him renovate the kitchen?
It seems like the answer would be an obvious yes, but I wasn’t sure. And yes, I realize that we can’t renovate it either at that point. But we’d rather try and scrub the filth off and repaint the cabinets than pay $200 more rent per month for the next 20 years.
Pshew. So, I think he’s agreed to give us a ballpark number for what the reno will cost us in additional rent. He was, as predicted, extremely defensive and posessive about it (“That’s my business, I never discuss those numbers with tenants, I’m not going to say what it’s going to cost you, do you want this kitchen or not,” etc. etc.) and the whole thing was totally eggshell/minefieldy as a social interaction with a guy who is very alpha male dominant about everything.
A note to landlords: the formal structure of rules and regulations is a nice way to allow you to interact with your tenants, be obviously above-board, and allow people to feel like they have an impersonal way to deal with any sources of conflict. When you seem like you’re unaware of or skirting rules, it makes your tenants distrustful, no matter how much all the word on the street says you’re a nice and trustworthy guy, and how nice and helpful you seem most of the time. (and vice versa, I’m sure.)
starfish1948- bfarwell sounds quite intelligent and astute about his situation. He’s making a financially osund choice for his family- would you do otherwise? Place is big, rent is reasonable, loves the neighborhood- and he’s obviously a good tenant. You sound a tad -actually more than a tad- jealous.
The most frustrating part of your experience is that the LL was initially open to you doing the reno, then changed his mind. I fear that has blinded you from the reality that he holds most of the cards. He will renovate your kitchen to a standard you can’t predict or control (but you can ask); he will raise your rent (but you can try to negotiate — thwackamole’s advice is excellent); and he will not level with you about the cost of the work (but you can research that so that he can’t totally screw you). I would advise having several conversations with him in order to work towards something mutually agreeable. Are there specific improvements you want to see? Appliances, layout, materials etc — some things don’t cost more but won’t happen if you don’t ask for them. Also, having those conversations will put him on notice that you can’t be taken for a ride — especially if you educate yourself first about typical costs.
Wait, starfish, why? I believe I said it’s cheap enough to allow us to live there without too much stress.
That means that, while my wife and I both work, we have two kids, and a 2.5br apartment would normally be so expensive that we would need to work much longer hours and less desireable jobs.
If you think my wife and I should have to work crummy jobs for long hours in order to house my family, that seems sort of… well, sort of dickish.
You plan on being there another 20 years because the rent is so “cheap”?
You deserve AT LEAST a $200 increase!
Thanks for the feedback, all- very much appreciated. I always feel like the guy is trying to game us in some way, and it makes me feel good to have some backup.
So, in no particular order:
Stargazer – No, we were going to buy it all initially and do the reno with our guys (with his blessing) but he decided against it (probably once he realized he couldn’t charge us more rent that way.) So he buys whatever he wants and installs it all.
ML/BkisHome- Yes, we intend to stay here for 20 years, barring sudden increases in wealth or sudden rationality on the part of the RE market. It’s totally big enough for our family, it’s cheap enough to not be stressed out, we love the location, we have nice views, the apartment is pretty nice except for the kitchen, etc.
Thwack- Yeah, we assumed we couldn’t do anything ourselves w/o his okay. It’s frustrating because initially he was totally into us doing the reno, but… whaddayagonnado.
Your suggestion about getting an estimate in writing seems totally reasonable and is what I’d like to do. And Maly, that’s exactly my fear with ‘his guys’ doing the work – that they’ll put in the same Home Despot shite that was there initially, but bill $8k for it.
The info about needing our signoff on the work is extremely helpful (though I know he’s going to be all defensive and angry when I bring it up*) because that’s really all I want: some idea of how much of an impact this is going to have on us before we agree to it. Most likely, we’ll be fine with it, we just don’t want to deal with (and shouldn’t have to deal with) the total uncertainty.
MAT- Well, somebody’s going to be living here during the next 20 years, and I think we’ve got a lot to recommend us as tenants. We always pay our rent on time, we’re polite, friendly, & low-maintenance. You’re welcome to churn through a bunch of hipsters at $1000 a bedroom if you want.
Thanks again, I’ll let y’all know how it goes after I talk to him this afternoon.
*yes, I know that’s ridiculous and unreasonable. however, that’s my vibe from him, and my hyper-conflict-averse self is stressed out by it.
1) You cannot do the work yourself, and you cannot remove his appliances and fixtures without his permission.
Sorry.
2) If he is smart, he will make you sign a contract that states that you agree to whatever costs are incurred.
3) It is reasonable to ask him for an estimate, and to sign a contract that states that you will pay no more than X dollars even if the estimate is inaccurate. This is what I did; it reduced risk for both the tenant and myself.
4) You can negotiate the time frames. Bear in mind, though, that faster contractors charge more.
5) The higher rent has other additional benefits — you have more leverage with your landlord, and you’ll be much more likely to get things fixed. Landlords on the brink of financial despair tend not to be responsive to tenants, and your quality of life will improve significantly with a new kitchen.
“There are no mechanism to actually check what he actually spent….”
That is not true. DHCR provides the claimed by the owner and tenant can challenge.
minard- I’ve been a renter all my life- nothing wrong with it.
bfarwell- check up on what Bklnite said. And if your landlord tries to stiff you, you can go to the RSB. They will need to see documentation from him in the event of a dispute. Hopefully you won’t need to- the advantage you could present to him is that you would probably do a nicer job that in the event you leave, will make the apartment more desirable (based on what I know of your line of work).You don’t have to let him renovate the kitchen but if there are serious issues with the kitchen that affect your using it, he does have to fix them.