Unlevel Window Install
I had some windows installed…they’re not level or plumb. Is there any reason why this would be acceptable? The house itself is 100 years old and the openings they were installed into were not level but wouldn’t the new install be made level? These are new windows entirely in a completely gutted room. If this…
I had some windows installed…they’re not level or plumb. Is there any reason why this would be acceptable?
The house itself is 100 years old and the openings they were installed into were not level but wouldn’t the new install be made level? These are new windows entirely in a completely gutted room.
If this is ‘normal’ when all the moldings go in wont everything be out of whack?
I just want to make sure i’m not being unreasonable when i call these guys to try and fix this.
thanks all!
As installers, we have to deal with this situation on a daily basis. Whether a building is 100 years or 5 years old, chances are nothing is truly plumb, level and square. Deductions in window size can account for level and square, but a true plumb installation that is even to both interior and exterior conditions is very rare.
Windows, however, need to be installed sqaure, level, and plumb. Preferably in that order, meaning its imperative to install a window square, slightly less important to install a window level and plumb. That being said, window operation will be impeded if not installed level and plumb as forces (gravity) will put different pressures on the hardware of the window. Most installers and clients prefer to give up some functionality for clean lines, and even returns.
Ross
Adler Windows
“brucef” makes a very good point. IF our houses were EVER square and plumb, they’re unlikely to remain so after 100+ years. A level isn’t necessarily your friend.
Oh, and the studs probably aren’t 16″ apart either 🙂
“Did the installers cork?”
wa? do you mean caulk? important to seal, but irrelevant to this post.
I’m possibly going to go against the “knee-jerk” responses by all other posters here.
If you are saying that the replacements as installed are paralellograms instead of rectangles, then all above posters are correct and you have to make a fuss, because the frames and sashes will come apart shortly.
However if what you mean is that the frames are a rectangle, but they aren’t plumb, then you may have to evaluate your house.
Often when we install doors or windows into an old Brooklyn brownstone we are faced with a masonry opening that is tilted. Simultaneously we may have interior framing that is also tilted, but not exactly the same angle.
In your case the old frames were utilized. But for discussion purposes, let’s say we were installing new frames also.
If we follow the tilted masonry openings exactly, then the windows might be cocked to the interior, which might be quite differently cocked. The floor angle is what your eye compares to, and your eyes can be quite accurate.
Now conversely if we make the new frames perpendicular to the interior floor, (and the floors are often un-level) then the new frames will be out of whack from the outside, which may be noticeable from the street unless we can hide it with capping.
Additionally once you follow the inside,not the masonry opening, then you will have to reduce the size of the glazing, picture putting the largest size rectangle in a crooked rectangle??
The point of this lengthy explanation, is that old house restoration, a compromise must be sought between two conflicts. This is where art and slips of the eye become important.
Your replacement guys probably stuck even with the old frames, which would be one method. If the frames were off level, than your replacements will be similarly out of plumb.
You need to put a real level (not a toy) on the masonry openings, and the old frames.
Then measure crosswise across the replacement frames (not the old frames) and verify that the two diagonal measurements are identical. (verify if they are out of square)
You may be unhappy with plumb new windows in a crooked opening, because the fact they have reduced glass area will accentuate the crookedness.
Unless you really understand the situation, you can’t go off on the poor installers.
Now if they were incompetent and they botched it, go for it.
bruce at jerseydata.net
our replacement windows were shimmed and leveled.
(they were replacing cheap replacement windows from the 80s that were ready-made sizes that were slightly too big for window opening – thus causing the normal shifting and moving of the building to “squeeze” the windows, ruining the thermal seal – and making the windows “foggy” – and causing the window open/close mechanisms to fail). Based on this experience I would also make sure that the replacement windows are in fact a good “fit” all around.
The window should be plumb and level. I does not matter that they are replacement of what they are made off. Did the installers cork?
Do they operate properly? Seal right? I’m guessing not.
any reasonable installer would have shimmed the windows so that they were square and plumb, insulated the gaps, and flashed the exterior to the brick. You’ve been ripped off, and you will most definitely have issues with air penetration around the old frames at the very least. Be thankful it was only a couple of windows.
Next time go with real wood windows and a true brick to brick replacement.
Even replacements can be shimmed to be level & plumb.