Electrical in a Pre-War Co-Op
I have an accepted offer on a 100 SF 1 bedroom in a 1937 co-op, and am running into an electrical issue. I hired an inspector to come out and the sponsor/seller would not allow him in any of the mechanical rooms for “insurance reasons”, so he could not verify the total amperage into the…
I have an accepted offer on a 100 SF 1 bedroom in a 1937 co-op, and am running into an electrical issue.
I hired an inspector to come out and the sponsor/seller would not allow him in any of the mechanical rooms for “insurance reasons”, so he could not verify the total amperage into the apartment. There are only fuses, no circuit breaker box. There are 6 fuses, 15 amps each (no circuit breaker) and a dedicated 20 amp for the electric stove. It is critical to me that I be able to replace the current cheap coil stove with an induction cooktop range/oven or an built in induction cooktop and separate wall oven. Specs of the ones I’m looking at say 30-40 amps necessary.
My inspector interviewed the sponsor and they had no idea about the amperage into the apt. So I emailed and asked again. They said they thought 110 amps. My inspector thinks they were mistakenly referring to the voltage.
I’m already pissed off because this could have been taken care of in 5 minutes if they’d let my inspector in to check, but I don’t want to complete walk away from the sale, for lots of other reasons. But how do I get actual proof of the amperage into the apt? In addition, my inspector says if indeed they meant it was 110 volts instead of 110/220v then that’s not as powerful.
What do I need minimum to run the stove/oven I want – voltage and amperage wise? What would the difference be if I went with a combo cooker/stove in one appliance vs a cooktop built into the counter and a separate wall oven – would I just need two dedicated breakers instead of one in the latter case?
Other than those, at most I’d run 2 8000 BTU A/Cs at the same time in different rooms, plus lamps, computer. Nothing else major.
My inspector says he’d be happy with 60 amps into the unit, if not I have to upgrade. I’m ok to do that, but he says I’d need to make sure that there was enough electric coming into the building to even upgrade. How can I get the seller to give me info I can be sure is correct – they don’t seem to know the accurate info now. Should I ask my attorney to add it to the contract that the seller represents there is X voltage, X amperage? Or that there is sufficient electric coming into the building for me to upgrade to 60 or 100 amps?
I want to be able to move on to negotiating a few grand off the price due to some other capital improvements that are needed, so i don’t want to get into a war with the sponsor over the electrical first. I just want to know I have verifiable, correct info.
I welcome your advice!
The cost for running an appliance like an electric stove, oven or dryer in NYC is pretty bad. You might – just for the sake of economy – consider a high end gas stove. It’s a breeze to cook with and the monthly expense is way lower.
I’d stand my ground, so to speak…
No reason not to get what you want. You didn’t mention a w/d but down the road it could be an option. We looked at an induction range but we only had one 220v line coming in to our prewar apt (60 amps total); a second would have been prohibitive. Bad or insufficient electrical wiring/service will drive you crazy.
DIBS,step up converters run electric razors in hotels, unless they are industrial-sized transformers. Never heard of one in a residential apt, but I could be wrong.
I’m assuming it’s 1,000 sq ft.
The only choice, really, good or otherwise. I’ve found in negotiating, both on the job and in real estate transactions, there’s a point where the other side has stopped negotiating, and they don’t want to see the deal to go through, however dumb that may seem to you. It is good to recognize that when it occurs and move on.
Because even if you acquiesced to the sponsor, once you close, remember that the coop board has control over what you do with the electrical work in your place, and there’s no requirement that they be reasonable.
Buyers get fleeced. You can agree to this for things you can control, fix, or live with. For stuff you can’t, walking away is the only good choice.
If I had an offer accepted on a 100 sq ft place, I would definitely walk away- I think it would be hard to cook in a place that size regardless of the electrical input :-).
Seriously, sponsors are really dumb sometimes, as I found out when I did walk away from a 100+ year old building being condoed over issues of electricity and hot water supply. For some reason, developers in NY don’t think they have to bring ancient buildings up to even minimal modern standards of, say, decades ago when it comes to this stuff.
I hate to say it, as I hated getting to this point myself, but if you know how much electric you need, and you think you have a right to find out what the apartment has, and you aren’t getting cooperation, you’ve already walked away, you just haven’t admitted it yet. The sponsor has been in this business longer, and knows it is up as soon as you dare to ask any questions.
Sponsors can get away with this because there are so many buyers who will buy anyway, with no inspection. Until buyers hold them to some minimal standards, lights will continue to dim all over Brooklyn when the AC or fridge cycles on – or even the hairdryer or iron is used – and fires will still be caused by ancient, obsolete wiring. So much for enforcing laws about this stuff…
You are going to need a house, actual new construction, or a building where the sponsor is long gone and the occupants have high standards and deep pockets and have upgraded (rare). Or rent from a homeowner who has. Or buy a place and live with dimming lights and a sense of uneasiness about the old equipment, as I ended up doing in another place, or ignore it like most folks do. And I had no special stove requirements – basic, cheap gas GE range. (Which I had to buy because the sellers refused to deal with their ancient stove wih its obvious gas leak….even when I pointed it out to their broker, they choose to subject their children to the leak for months rather than call to gas company, which I did the day after closing.)
My point is,
If I had an offer accepted on a 100 sq ft place, I would definitely walk away- I think it would be hard to cook in a place that size regardless of the electrical input :-).
Seriously, sponsors are really dumb sometimes, as I found out when I did walk away from a 100+ year old building being condoed over issues of electricity and hot water supply. For some reason, developers in NY don’t think they have to bring ancient buildings up to even minimal modern standards of, say, decades ago when it comes to this stuff.
I hate to say it, as I hated getting to this point myself, but if you know how much electric you need, and you think you have a right to find out what the apartment has, and you aren’t getting cooperation, you’ve already walked away, you just haven’t admitted it yet. The sponsor has been in this business longer, and knows it is up as soon as you dare to ask any questions.
Sponsors can get away with this because there are so many buyers who will buy anyway, with no inspection. Until buyers hold them to some minimal standards, lights will continue to dim all over Brooklyn when the AC or fridge cycles on – or even the hairdryer or iron is used – and fires will still be caused by ancient, obsolete wiring. So much for enforcing laws about this stuff…
You are going to need a house, actual new construction, or a building where the sponsor is long gone and the occupants have high standards and deep pockets and have upgraded (rare). Or rent from a homeowner who has. Or buy a place and live with dimming lights and a sense of uneasiness about the old equipment, as I ended up doing in another place, or ignore it like most folks do. And I had no special stove requirements – basic, cheap gas GE range. (Which I had to buy because the sellers refused to deal with their ancient stove wih its obvious gas leak….even when I pointed it out to their broker, they choose to subject their children to the leak for months rather than call to gas company, which I did the day after closing.)
My point is,
Step Up Converter.