How Common is Flooding?
Hi all. We’re thinking about making an offer on a renovated Park Slope ground level brownstone apartment with cellar and back garden included. Lived in upper floor apts all our lives and trying to get info on how common cellar flooding is. Are there specific questions I should be asking the broker, like what sort…
Hi all. We’re thinking about making an offer on a renovated Park Slope ground level brownstone apartment with cellar and back garden included. Lived in upper floor apts all our lives and trying to get info on how common cellar flooding is. Are there specific questions I should be asking the broker, like what sort of drainage system was installed during the renovation? We like this apartment but are nervous about the flood risk. Thanks for any insight.
P.S. Remember you’re not seeing this property during rainy season. The snow is not melting and the last rain we had was a couple weeks ago. If you’re really concerned then tell the broker you need to see the property on a rainy day before you’ll buy.
Despite this lawsuit discussed below, brokers still find a way to not show houses on rainy days:
http://bstoner.wpengine.com/brownstoner/archives/2009/11/corcoran_found.php
If you ever see a broker doing that it should send up huge red flags.
Does anybody remember the insane video of the garden level flooding in a Park Slope newly renovated condo that was posted on Brownstoner a year ago? Water GUSHING in the back door. We looked at a browndo on 3rd st and it was so scarily obvious that they were getting water in the garden level where they’d installed sliding glass doors. There were a lot of quick-buck condo conversions during the bubble and the work was not great. I couldn’t believe they were asking $1.2mm for that floody place with ugly cheap finishings. It’s the thing that sent us fleeing to another neighborhood to get more space.
OP, if there are any non-renovated properties with garden levels for sale on the same block take a look for telltale water damage. Also when was this conversion done in relation to the brand new renovation of the garden level? If the conversion on this building was done a few years ago but the sheetrock is brand new in the garden level, that would make me personally suspicious.
Once upon a time, say 70s and 80s, basements all over park slope used to flood all the time. I think since then the city has improved our sewer system and most buildings don’t flood anymore.
sniffing for a damp smell unlikely to work well in winter when the heat will keep the relative humidity low. Our basement smells musty all summer but smells clean and great right now.
I agree your inspector is best bet. Personally, I’m not keen on renovated cellars as living space because the whole below grade thing seems icky to me, bugs, floods, etc…. But of course price per SQ FT is so much less, it can be tempting option.
People are always posting here about flooding in the Slope from rain and the overwhelmed municipal sewage system. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone anywhere else post about it. (Although of course anyone can have a backed up drain overflow or a pipe break.)
Yeah, I figured it was a new reno, which is why I didn’t bother to suggest looking for signs of water.
Definitely talk to the neighbors – not only the neighbors in the building – but neighbors on either side may have info on flooding if it has happened – especially if they’ve been there a long time.
All of these suggestions make sense Bond, but this is a freshly renovated unoccupied brownstone and the basement floor and sheetrock walls are brand new, look like less than a month old (stairs also), so not much history to go on. But I’m going to see it again tomorrow and will do a thorough examination around the whole basement near the floor. I think I’m also going to knock on the neighbor’s door and see if they’re willing to chat about it.
Look for tell tale signs like sump pumps, multiple dehumidifers, and efflorescence on the walls. Is there a musty damp smell? Look at the corners where the walls meet the floor, that’s usually where you get the most moisture.
Do the current occupants have stuff stored in the basement, and if so, is it on the floor, or racks? Look at the end of anything absorbant like wood or sheetrock that contacts the floor (stairs are usually good for this). It there’s been flooding, you’ll see staining on the wood. Same thing with any old sheetrock. Just try to make sure that you’re looking at stuff that’s been in place long enough to give you a good indication. You can usually tell just by looking if stains or “ghosts” are new or old. Repeat exposure to water will cause sheetrock to crumble, so look at the ends of the sheetrock closest to the floor and see if they are starting to powderize (don’t be fooled by places where it’s been crushed, or bummped, you want to look for water stains along the entire lower edge with disentigration of the wallboard). Hopefully there will be something non-absorbant on the floor like an old plastic bag. When you move it, how damp is the floor underneath? All these things will give you a pretty good idea of how “wet” your potential basement is.
The problem with floods, either through rainfall, or backed up pipes is that a building can go a hundred years and never have a flood, then have two in a week, so ultimately there’s no guaranty, but you can still make an educated choice.
Depending on what shape the basement’s in, you should be able to judge whether there’s been a problem recently. If there hasn’t been, I doubt there ever will be.
Don’t just ask the broker – ask your inspector. When I had a place inspected years ago, a higher apartment in a building with a similar configuration downstairs, I seem to remember he had some knowledge about flooding patterns in the slope – it was awhile ago, hard to remember exactly – ask your inspector when you hire them if they have any knowledge.
And don’t assume any drainage system was actually installed – people do the oddest things on renovation, going for how it looks, not upgrading systems in many cases.
Since you could have a flood from a blocked pipe later even if not subject to flooding from rain, my conservative stance on buying such a place would be to furnish as if it might flood in the future (wouldn’t put down carpeting in a basement, for instance, but tile, or use expensive furniture there.) Assume you will have to fix some things if it happens.
I’d pay attention to whether it was a coop or condo, and whether there would be a difference in how much I’d be responsible for paying for repairing (ask your lawyer) in the two different scenarios. In either case, you’ll have good insurance on your place and on the building.
I think it is a risk you always take on a ground floor – just like you take the risk of the roof leaking and damaging things on the top floor (happened to me – only the difference there is that it is only your stuff you have to fix – the roof is clearly a common element.) If the garden is worth it to you, you take the risk.