Renovation Costs
we are thinking of buying a four story brownstone and are trying to figure out how much we need for renovations…it’s very approximate but we are looking at re-doing plumbing and electricity, 3 bathrooms (bath is already there just adding tiles, shower, new toilet and flooring) 2 kitchens – 1 can be a cheap ikea…
we are thinking of buying a four story brownstone and are trying to figure out how much we need for renovations…it’s very approximate but we are looking at re-doing plumbing and electricity, 3 bathrooms (bath is already there just adding tiles, shower, new toilet and flooring) 2 kitchens – 1 can be a cheap ikea kitchen. The floors, roof and walls are in good condition.Obviously walls will need to be re-painted.
We wanted to set aside around $150,000 and obviously are going to look at the property with our architect but wanted to know if anyone had any advice? The property is about 3000 sq feet.
any ballpark figures from your own experience would be greatly appreciated!
One clarification – if you go without licensed, insured trades you may be able to achieve the pricing that some have put forth on electric and plumbing less than $25k each. If you do it properly, its not coming in under $40k each. There is no right answer here, its more about tradeoffs and risks. Without the licensed, insured, and properly permitted trades you get the benefit of the lower cost and the risk of a stop work order and more likely that things are not done correct and you have problems downstream, 12+ months out from completion. We are living in a gut renovated rental that was done without licensed contractors. Its been 18 months since the renovation and multiple light switches no longer work, there are plenty of leaks (and damaged paint), and generally things are starting to fall apart just a bit at the edges. Nothing you cant live with, but nothing I would be satisfied with after putting in $200k for what is generally turning out to be shoddy work.
denton’s renovation, from what I’ve gathered is pretty high-end. I agree with housenut’s figures, they’re in line with mine, which was not ‘gut’ renovation either, but plenty of work and less than half of the high figures in these comments.
Based on our real time experience on a similarly sized house, I agree that some of these seem low. Denton seems closest in my experience. I am looking at our bid for plumbing (nothing elaborate) of roughly $45k excluding all tile. Electrical of $40 excluding any fixtures. We initially went to architect interviews hoping for the low end of the $150-200 psf range. Some chuckled and some said it was doable but would be very tight. Even with fair warning, I have been surprised how much more expensive each step of the process has been. And how much more time things have taken. We are almost a full year in on the project and have yet to receive DOB permits.
We used to read these posts all the time when we went through our search and built a detailed cost projection model for each building we looked at. Now that we have been through the actual bidding process, I must say that these numbers above are quite low unless you are going extremely bare budget (i.e., home depot for all finishes) and doing the work yourself. Electric is $40k from a licensed electrician, figure the same for plumbing. This does not include running new service to the building, which would add another $7k for each electric and plumbing. If you want a central HVAC system that is another $40k. New kitchen is $50k minimim if you have custom cabinets. $35k if you go ikea cabinets with higher end appliances. Rental kitchen might cost you $8-10k with Ikea. Bathrooms are going to run you $15k each if you use moderate finishes and tile. Then there are all sorts of little things that add up quickly, like new interior doors – try $600 each for standard doors, and $1200 each if they are fire-rated (which would be necessary for any doors in a two family in which you wont have a sprinkler system). Most four floor brownstones will have about 18-20 doors – do the math. Replace or refinish floors – figure $7 per SF (even though standard oak at lumber liquidators cost $3.50 per SF, you have to pay for the labor unless you are doing it yourself). $25-30k for painting and skimcoating. Any demolition – $10k per floor. Now take each number and add 20-22% on top for GC. Then take 15% on top of that total for the architect. You are at a minimum of $100k per floor. Not high end finishes, but not home depot. One other item for your budget – 4-6 months of carry while you wait for landmark & DOB permits and full bid set drawings from your architect.
To do this right with a quality general contractor you are looking at between 250 and 300k.
Denton knows what he’s talking about. He gut renovated his own house.
The only cost area here I know about is electric, and HouseNut’s sounds very reasonable. I got quotes ranging from $15,000 to $20,000 for a three story plus cellar house of 3,000 sf. We went with the 15,000 quote and were very happy with it.
We’ve also done a lot of drywall and plastering. It’s one of those things that can vary wildly. $20,000 certainly sounds like a reasonable ballpark figure.
Based on our real-time experience on a similarly sized house, I would say most of these seem low. Denton seems most realistic. Granted we had Landmarks and some foreseen structural issues, but…we went into architect interviews at the low end of the $150-200 psf range. Some chuckled and most thought it was reasonable but tight. Our place sounds like it definitely needed more that the one you describe, but I have been consistently amazed by how much more expensive every step of the way has been. The other surprise has been the time it has taken. We are almost a year in and have yet to receive DOB permits.
$300K at a minimum.
take the high estimate cost. multiply it by 2.
take the estimated time. multiply it by 2.5.
this is what a very wise friend told me as i was buying my “in need of renovation” first house.
i laughed it off.
he was almost 100% correct.
first time buyers/renovators of old homes immediately contract a highly contagious and stubborn form of delusional optimism/solipsism. it can be a fatal disease if not treated quickly.
plan accordingly and be pleasantly surprised when you go under-budget. the alternative is a misery no one should have to go through.