DIY Renovation
I’m planning on upgrading the flooring, insulation and replacing the kitchen and bath of my house. The floor is in bad shape and needs to be leveled. The old wall are plaster and lath and I’m going to rip that out and put in R13 and drywall. Does this require a permit? I’ve called 311,…
I’m planning on upgrading the flooring, insulation and replacing the kitchen and bath of my house. The floor is in bad shape and needs to be leveled. The old wall are plaster and lath and I’m going to rip that out and put in R13 and drywall. Does this require a permit? I’ve called 311, DOB, and DCA, who tell me that replacing existing does not require permits if the homeowner does it. I know I’ll generate a lot of debris. How do I get it removed?
Thanks
So, I know amist the discussion, I just wanted to partake my followup to the Request for Inspection. The inspector has now issued a Stop Work order and a violation for construction debris. I really could use some advice now. Apparently, when you remove the walls to the studs and leave them open, remove the sink and toliets, and level the floor it counts as a renovation, rather, than just “direct replacement”. I told him exactly what I was doing, but he wouldn’t have any of it, claiming that it’s a renovation, not a replacement. I’ve been in contact with Jock DeBoer, AIA for solutions to remedy this matter and just wanted to gather more opinions if any other options are availible.
Thought I might stir up some controversy. I recognize that NYC is a tough place to get work done, but the homeowner is within his or her rights to do certain things themselves. Of course, things change when you have tenants or are doing work in a coop or condo.
But when an architect suggests that a permit is required for work that does not require one, I bristle.
Asbestos is to be taken seriously, but the risk is often overstated. The distinction between friable and non-friable is key, as was mentioned. What is not mentioned that a homeowner can also submit samples of plaster directly to a lab, saving substantial money, if all we are talking about is resurfacing walls. Also, many plaster walls contain no asbestos, which was the case in our house.
Mugsyrx, it appears you have at least one wonderful neighbor. For your sake I hope your new kitchen and new bath does not entail changes to the plumbing.
Denton, let’s grab a beer.
I am not looking to get in a pissing contest, but every apartment I have done, the asbestos inspector tests every type of crap being removed. I do not think they are doing it to raise the cost as a test is $15 or so and the entire bill is like $350. Asbestos back in the day got mixed into anything and everything. I just to be safe get it tested. BTW, I think the fine for asbestos related work without a permit is like $10k (I may be wrong on that, but they did just change the rules).
Jock deBoer, AIA
deBoer Architects
what’s with all this asbestos abuse? The OP never said he would see it. He said he’s going to rip out some plaster. There’s no asbestos in plaster and lathe. Really, guys, you’re getting a bit carried away, don’t you think? The only friable asbestos a homeowner is going to run into is pipe and boiler insulation. The OP didn’t say he’s planning to do anything with that.
You can replace plaster and lathe with drywall without a permit.
Just a bit of advice especially since I take it to a personal level and I guess Jock De Boer as well as renomandru thinks that architects / expediters are just a bunch of extortionists.
While we respect your opinion and don’t care too much what you do on a personal level, That does not absolve you from the obligation by law and obligation to your neighbors and family as well.
While there may be some archite ts / expediters that will take you for a ride that is still pretty uncommon and is the same as you find ith contractors and with all other trades.
We work with the City who doesn’t even give the slightest look to help you at all and more often then not will screw you as is just like that.
Now, going back to the law the DOB and DOT has stepped up a lot the enforcement and since you never got caught you will allo yourself to make fun of the common individual no problem , but let me in on a little secret.
A container permit costs 50.00 for up to 90 days and an expediter will charge you bet. 150-250 in addition to that for your dumpster permit. The fines can be anywhere from 400-1200 and DOB can give another 2400.00 ticket for failure to maintain so go figure the math by yourself.
I had clients who got caught recently with asbestos related issues. The fines that cost them from the DEP in addition to a lawyer cost them 5 figure numbers which you can eliminat easily by having an asbestos guy checking it out and filing a report for a couple hundred.
Same thing with permits. Don’t want a permit don’t take one. But if you get caught you get a stop work order in addition to a minimum of a 5 grand violation and most of the times an additional ECB for another 2400.00 a pop.
If you violate that that is another pop of 5 grand so do whatever you want
Thanks for you help. I think Denton said it right, I must have a person who thinks that replacing the plaster is a full on demolition project of the house. Wonderfully, I just got a Notice to Call for Inspection from DOB. How does this work? Again, no plumbing, no electrical, no structural… nothing. just the walls, floors and new kitchen and bath.
You ask who is going to fine a DIYer for ripping out a-stuff. A big part of the problem with working with this stuff is not the actual work, the authorities may never get into your house to see you doing that, but disposing of it. When it is disposed of, it must go to a licensed facility and receipts are issued for every transfer along the way; if I remember from what I’d learned about handling it, if the last guy in the process takes it and dumps it on a highway somewhere and they trace it to your house, and you don’t have a transfer receipt, you have a problem. I don’t think I am stretching it when I say that.
That said, if you toss this stuff into the waste stream and it turns up in some landfill someplace and some inspector sees it, I would not doubt that they would try to find out where it came from.
Maybe read a little about this – because you might encounter it in various places – floor tile, walls, pipes. Not all asbestos is considered a problem, even when being removed. Non-friable asbestos (floor tiles) can be lifted and disposed of in the waste steam; friable (the stuff in walls, in insulating bricks, on pipes) must be treated as the bad stuff.
Definately have the material tested. If you find out it is the bad, read a little about this stuff to understand your responsibilities and then take it from there.
Steve
http://www.thetinkerswagon.com
Please note that he asked what was required. Those that think that what they got away with before the craines came down is going to be in for a rude awakening. Especially with asbestos. I said to be safe get it tested. I for one, would not want to expose myself or someone else to that. It is a killer afterall. My wifes uncle died of it and it was not pretty. Best $500 that person will spend, expecially if it turns out to be negative. The fine is steep and all it takes is one pissed off person to call 311. They will come and shut you down. NYC is getting to the point where like every other real city they will have a number of people whose only job will be to drive around and look for people doing work without a permit. They are now doing final inspections of all self certified work to catch the people doing work that is either not on the plans or shown incorrectly.
Jock deBoer, AIA
deBoer Architects
Philosophically, I’m with renoman, having said that a lot will depend on the nabe you are in. Certain nabes people call 311 when they hear a hammer, other nabes you can gut a 4 story brownstone without a permit and your neighbors will appreciate you upgrading the block.