We are looking at an apartment in a brownstone to buy, but it is in need of extensive renovation. Not a gut job, I think, but definitely: updating the electric, maybe plumbing, a new kitchen, both bath and half bath, refinishing the floors and paint. We also want to figure out additional options, such as making the half bath into a full bath, or adding an additional full bath. There is also evidence of some water damage in the ceiling of one room (top floor of building), so need advice on that.

In reading here, most seem to recommend an architect, but would we be better served with an engineer/home inspector?

Also, how do I get my arms around what range we should be paying per sq foot pre-reno? The apartment is in Park Slope.


Comments

  1. I guess i don’t see how I get away with, as I said, 1/3 of your 250/ft cost. I have done about 90k worth of renovation over the years, from garden to deck to redo bath, install kitchen, to simple trim/paint stuff. None of it comes close to your experience, even granting none was a “gut” job.

    I’m not doubting your numbers as much as thinking they’re high end.

  2. cmu – I reread your post and realized your bathroom cost was less expensive than I quoted above; however, the point holds, kitchen and baths are the most expensive spaces to renovate.

  3. cmu – The scope of work described in the OP’s project is very different from yours. For example, your bathroom as described above comes out to around $400psf, on the low side of average for baths and kitchens. The OP is talking about doing a kitchen and 3 bathrooms in addition to the base work. Obviously, doing 4 spaces that average $400psf will greatly increase the psf cost overall. If you added another bathroom to your renovation work, your psf cost would go way up. Make sense?

    That’s why you can’t judge renovation costs by your personal experience with 1 project. Sure, if the OP is smart about finishes, has a clever architect, and controls the scope, the cost could go down significantly. But it’s advisable to plan for the worst case when entering as situation as described above.

    Oh, and my comments come from 12 years of experience as an architect in NYC doing renovation work. Does that count for you?

  4. “250 a square foot is what you pay for a good job”

    Of course, actual experience like mine (and others) does not count, off-the-cuff figures are better. OP, I recommend you should budget $1000/sq ft and throw in your first born.

  5. One more thought — is this a co-op or a condo? If it’s a co-op anything you do will require board approval first. Your agent or the seller’s agent should be able to tell you/find out how easy this process is in this building. Remember, when you are buying a co-op you are not buying an actual apartment and thereofre “own” only up to the paint on the walls. Past that point, you are touching someone else’s property (even though you are a stockholder in that corporation).

  6. I don’t know what a “normal” level of renovations means. Do you mean a shitty level of renovations with mostly cosmetic fixes? A quality renovation where you pretty much strip away everything that is crap rather than covering it over, is expensive. And in a walk-up you have to be careful as to what can and cannot fit in the stairhall. The sheetrock will probably need to come in through a window. It isn’t easy unless you want an amateurish slapdashh job. 250 a square foot is what you pay for a good job. I would also advise agaisnt keeping the old floors. When you do this much work leveling and replacing the fin floor is a better bet than refinishing. For one thing you will find that nothing is level in these old buildings. starting out from a level floor really helps everything fit better and look better especially casework and cabinetry.

  7. Initially, you may want to hire a certified home inspector so you can decide if you want to proceed with the purchase. If you are serious about buying you could bring an architect and contractor. The type of work you describe would require that either a licensed architect or engineer prepare plans and file them with the Department of Buildings (DOB) for a permit. I would be surprised if the co-op/condo isn’t making that a requirement.

    Ask around for recommendations on architects: they are definitely worth hiring if you are renovating or reconfiguring a space.

    Regarding FMV, someone above said it best: take average comps and subtract out estimated cost of renovation for FMV. Lower end renovations could be around $100/SF and higher end could be as high as $250/SF or higher. It really depends on what you want to do, the kind of materials and fixtures you are using, etc.

  8. Ok here’s an estimate I just got:

    Finish basement 16×20 area, including moving plumbing, wiring and w/d to new location: Close off boiler area w/fire rated wall. 12,000.

    New bath (8×8), tear out old bath and make into closet, paint, redo floors 800sq ft: 21k w/o fixtures.

    Where you guys get 250/ft is beyond me. I say 1/2 that for “normal” level of reno.

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