Fire damage to roof
We are in the process of buying a house in Park Slope. The Engineer inspected the house today and found evidence of fire damage in the roof. The roof joists are quite heavily charred. The house has been renovated and the sellers said that they had no prior knowledge of the fire, which I find…
We are in the process of buying a house in Park Slope. The Engineer inspected the house today and found evidence of fire damage in the roof. The roof joists are quite heavily charred. The house has been renovated and the sellers said that they had no prior knowledge of the fire, which I find hard to believe, considering the level of charring on the joists was quite obvious. The sellers have renovated several houses in the area, so they’re not stupid. The Seller spoke to his attorney and amazingly he came up with a fire report, dating back to 1968 that the fire started in an upstairs kitchen. The Sellers are not prepared to open up the roof and repair the charred joists as they said this fire was 40 years ago and was signed off by the State. What do you think we should do? Would you ask for more money off the selling price and tackle the problem yourself? Would you get a 2nd opinion from another engineer? Would you walk away?
For a small search fee, I’m sure your attorney could obtain the fire report for you. Anyhow, we’ve decided to pull out of this house. The Seller’s aren’t showing willingness to investigate the fire damage and they’re not being particularly cooperative. We don’t need to be dealing with shady Sellers and to be honest, the house is nice but it’s not that great. Thankyou to everyone for your replies, your help has been invaluable.
How/where does one obtain a fire report?
We recently purchased a 3-family townhouse in Crown Heights. During renovation work, the electrician took down part of the ceiling in the basement to reveal the aftermath of what looked like a serious fire.
Fortunately, the damage was repaired (sistered joists) but we’re still curious when the fire happened and any other details about it.
My contractor said the same as pmmtenement. If we can’t open up the ceiling at this present time, then get an estimate for the complete replacement of the joists and roof etc and put that amount in escrow. Once we sign the contract on the house, then we’ll be able to start repairing the roof and see what really needs to be done. Hopefully it is only a case of sistering the joists but we won’t know until we open the ceiling up. As for the roof sagging, my engineer said it could be the charred joists not giving the roof enough support but then we won’t know for sure until we open the roof up and take a look (same dilemma). At the moment, the only access to the attic is a small square hole that an electrician had opened up to run some wires. Thank goodness our engineer shone his torch in that hole and saw those burned joists, otherwise we’d be none the wiser. Just goes to show, always check the attic!
Much more relevant is the fact that the roof is sagging. What did the engineer say about that?
You could ask to have the estimated $ amount for a full replacement of the joists and the roof put in escrow. If only sistering is required the excess could revert to the seller. That way you can get covered for work required without sellers agreeing to taking down the ceiling.
Thankyou Ed, your reply was very helpful. My structural engineer would like to take the ceiling down to look at ways of re-supporting the timbers but the Realtor said the Seller’s would not agree to this because they continue to “Open House” the property. It’s a shame, because this would be the best way of inspecting the damage and to see whether the joists will need to be replaced or whether they can be sistered to the existing ones to provide additional strength (like you said). We do know that more support is needed because the flat roof is sagging. We’ve got a contractor going in tomorrow to inspect the damage and give us estimates for repair. If we get the whole roof repaired/replaced it will come with a 20 year guarantee which would give future buyers “peace of mind” when it comes to us selling the home.
Structural damage, concealed by the Seller, sounds bad and would lead me to scrutinize every component of the transaction. Ask the structural engineer if the joists will need to be replaced or if he thinks new joists can be sistered to the existing ones to provide additional strength. Once you have an idea of what needs to get done, get a firm quote from a reputable contractor. The quote should include the demolition and repair (possibly roof replacement)required to achieve the structural repair. This could easily cost tens of thousands of dollars. Ed Kopel ARchitects, pC
Thankyou so much for your replies, it’s much appreciated. This is what our Engineer said about the roof: “The extent of char on the visible fire damaged members may have substantially weakened these members. No comment can be offered on structural components concealed from view, although the extent of visible damage would suggest that further damage exists. It is recommended that inquiries be made to determine what is known about the history of fire within the building. It is also recommended that the beams be re -supported as needed during re-roofing”.
If you REALLY like the house, try to get the cost of repairs reduced from the purchase price.