329 Adelphi Visit
First, let me say that it was a pleasure meeting the realtor, Bill Radtke, a really nice guy. This house will need a total gut job. The basement ceiling needs to be removed to determine the issues with the undulating (!) first floor. That said, this house seems really solid. It was most likely built…
First, let me say that it was a pleasure meeting the realtor, Bill Radtke, a really nice guy. This house will need a total gut job. The basement ceiling needs to be removed to determine the issues with the undulating (!) first floor. That said, this house seems really solid. It was most likely built in the 1840s or somewhere therabouts and maintains its original clapboards under the shingles. The framing is solid (likely oak) 4X5, 24″ on center and filled with brick, which is why, despite the floors, the house stands plumb. It needs a new roof, all new plumbing but does have circuit breakers and a fair amount of new BX. There is nothing salvageable AT ALL on the inside except the crown moldings, which are pictured and quite interesting and a nice stair rail. The stairs are built against a curved wall and will be a beautiful feature once that wrap around rail is restored. The fireplaces have been long ago sealed up and there is one rather plain marble mantle.
The basement is full height and legally occupiable. The top floor has decent ceiling height to make a large bedroom and perhaps add a small bath. About a third of that 24′ X 35″ floor is usable.
So, it’s really about 3,100 sq. ft. in total usable space. Carve out a utilities room in the basement from that figure.
The door and window casings outside might be slavageable but in reality should be replaced along with the windows, which are not slavageable. The porch needs to be completely rebuilt but the columns are salvageable.
The house next door which someone linked in yesterday’s HOTD thread has been completely restored and is a copy of this one wrt porch & casing details. The addition on the back, though it shares the same basement is a bit funky with the second floor level lower than the main house. It was originally detached.
It’ll make a beautiful house but it will require far more than $200-300,000 in renovation, ptobably $500,000.
I last did a gut reno in PA in 2000 and easily spent $300,000 on a smaller project.
The last comment I made to Bill as we were leaving was that dealing with LPC on the exterior was going to be the least of your problems. But if someone with the passion can see this as the size house that’s good for them, it’ll be a great project and it’ss be worth more than $1.2 MM when done correctly.
Ed: The original House of the Day post can be viewed here.
Actually, I do know what’s involved.
What price would you pay. At $700,000 by your own math, you are losing money. Sure it’s got potential, but the right number is so ridiculously far from ask that it’s not worth dealing with. If you have a different analysis, go ahead and explain. Everything works at SOME price.
The URE has been underperforming because that is what it is supposed to do in a down market. I’ve made money on both sides of URE and the TBT. That’s why you have to know the difference between a new bull market and a …
-Dead Cat Bounce
DIBS,
Ignore the fly on your shoulder, unless you have Obama-like reflexes. I agree that parquet seems incongruous with the house. Wide plank seems right. We managed to restore our 8″-10″ pine planks and use it all, except for the garden-level, despite water damage. The water damage simply added color and variegation. We ended up with several grades of maple syrup. Of course, as we found various surprises and costs mounted, the idea of selling our floors crossed my miond mor than once, but I never considered seriously. I’ve seen reclaimed southern pine planks going for over $30/s.f.
When we started, we also had some buckling floors in an extension that had more recent flooring, and we had some joists compromised due to water damage but the two were unrelated. The water damaged joists had simply been eaten away and flaked down to a weight-bearing toothpick but I saw no evidence that water damage to a joist would cause a floor to buckle. The bucking is due to expansion as the flooring takes on teh water and the pieces press against eachother. SOmething has to give. It’s like plate tectonics.
Good luck finding an antebellum house to restore. My area doesn’t go quite that old. The Charette people tend to buy up anything decent from the 1860s although I don’t know if they are still active in this climate. They did well for themselves, however. They do high-end faux farmhouse really well.
Dead…Apparently ONLY YOU would pay $900,000 for this place. You really have no clue why someone would restore this house and what’s involved anyway so why bother posting.
This is not a gamble, not a specultion. Tell me why the URE has underperformed the DOW RE Index when it’s 200% leveraged. Keep your armchair analysis to yourself.
*rob* – efficient contractor by day, ruthless mannie by night…
DIBS –
you say you manage a hedge fund? How do you do that without a basic knowledge of arithmetic?
$900,000 to purchase, plus $500,000 to renovate, plus the opportunity cost on 1.4 M over a year (say $70,000) plus the cost of your time at minimumum wage (say $30,000), plus compensation for the risk and aggravation equals at minimum 1.5M for a house that by your inflated reckoning is worth 1.2M and you are underwater at least $300,000 dollars. Significant wealth destruction.
Do you work for Niederhoffer?
If you want to gamble recklessly on a RE comeback you can do so far more efficiently and with at least the ability to hedge by going long the URE.
This deal doesn’t even deserve to be called a …
Dead Cat Bounce
i think renovation costs are ridiculous. 500K to renovate a damn rinky dink brooklyn house? hells to the no, im sorry. how long will it take to renovate? i think renovators get paid waaaaay more than they should. much like live in maid’s apparently.
just working in soho and seeing all the “renovations” that go on. really it’s nothing but men standing outside all day cat calling women and drinking beer in paper bags. they do crap. they waste so much time.
*rob*
Agreed, slope. It will be difficult to keep it intact. No medallions. I’m of the belief that it will probably come down because the ceilings and walls need to come down and then it can be replaced with wood detail of a more Georgian style. I fear that the only original detail that will remain will be the staircase bannister and the curved wall….which will be nice.
After thinking about it, and because of the evidence of water damage in the front wall, I believe that the floor joists are probably sound and this is a warped floor due to water damage.
The floor was added in the late 1880s. It’s that parquet style found in most brownstones. This polace would look great with wide plank walnut flooring, more to the period.
http://www.sylvanbrandt.com
DIBS,
Ft. Greene has some of the most ornate and unique crown molding around, much more so than prime slope. In this house, it will be tricky to save it intact if everything else has to go. Vibration and removed support during demo and construction will surely take out some pieces, requiring delicate restortion work. We lost some moldings and medallions this way (1860s, and much less ornate), but managed to keep the moldings and medalion in the LR intact.
thanks for the feedback, sounds like an amazing project for the right person