HELP: Cert. of Occ. issue
What would you do in this Cert. of Occup. situation? A little history, we are trying to buy a single-family attached townhouse. Even before we executed the contract, we had a feeling the enclosed 1-story back addition (20’x8′) might be an issue as we had gone on the Dept. of Building website, poked around, and…
What would you do in this Cert. of Occup. situation?
A little history, we are trying to buy a single-family attached townhouse. Even before we executed the contract, we had a feeling the enclosed 1-story back addition (20’x8′) might be an issue as we had gone on the Dept. of Building website, poked around, and saw that in 2000 some permits were issued but never closed out. We told this to our lawyer who says we won’t know for sure until the title search is done but he had flagged this issue to the seller’s lawyer beforehand. Sure enough, in the last week of Dec., the title search comes back and show that there a Cert. of Occupany in 1940 but a new one was never filed after the job that was not signed off in 2000. A formal letter was sent to the seller’s lawyer.
Its now a month later, we’ve gotten our letter of commitment from the bank on Jan. 14th – it expires on Feb. 23rd. Turns out the sellers have not done anything this whole time. The story is their expeditor has told them they need to hire an architect to have drawings drafted and stamped but they are “taking bids†was the last we heard. (I don’t actually trust the seller’s lawyer because its not the first time she has mis-represented her client. She told our lawyer that we had all been discussing a 10,000 deduction to the price if we take on this CoO issue – um, no we’ve never discussed this.) ANYWAYS, our bank will not give a mortgage on a house without a valid CoO. They said they will not even consider an escrow process of any sort because its against conforming loan/Freddie/Fannie guidelines apparently. To extend the commitment, they will charge 1/4pts for the first 30days and then 1/4pts for each 15days after that.
So what to do? Time is ticking on our mortgage commitment. We are both financially and emotionally invested. The only thing our lawyer has said is that we can do is to write them an ultimatum letter giving them the required 30-day notice to come to closing or to give us our down-payment back.
The job description on the DoB work permit says, “to demolish and re-construct on new footing one story frame enclosed porch at rear of existing dwelling. There is no change in use, group, occupancy or egress under this application.†However we’ve seen electrical outlets and a base-board heater in the addition… Does anyone know how fast this can happen if drawings can be stamped and done in 1-day?
Is there a second option to demolish this addition/renovation and to have the city come out and negate the 2000 permit and get a fast Cert. of Occupancy that way? We don’t particularly care for the addition anyways…
We can’t imagine why the sellers are not more cognizant of what is happening unless he is getting bad advice from his lawyer… this house has been empty since the summer of last year when his mother died… I can’t imagine why he would stall the process on purpose…
if you are still messing with it, give me the address i will tell you what the story is,
you got alot of great advice.
what makes it a CofO issue?
there is a 1940 CofO and some open applications.
ONLY if there is an application to ammend the CofO will you have a CofO issue. then that one must be completed or withdrawn.
if all applications are alt 2’s then you only have an open application issue
banks dont like open applications.
but that is no different than if you bought the building and had to repair the footing under the porch yourself.
buy it, repair it or remove it. start a new application because the 2000 job is dead. have a fit with the sellers lawyer to get as much escrow as possible and hire an architect to do the work. new drawings because you want to actually finish the job. its not difficult
Move on to another building, too messy!
An Alteration Type II directive 14 does not require an amended certificate of Occupancy. To sign it off, a letter of completion is obtained at the Building Department when the architect/ engineer submits the required technical reports. A horizontal enlargement can be filed as a Directive 14 as there is no change to occupancy, use or egress and as long as comply with zoning regulations.
If the Alteration Type II directive 14 was filed in conjunction with an Alteration Type 1, then an amended Certificate of Occupancy is required.
So there is a co of o but it does not reflect the extension? How will the bank ever know? Their valuation is based on comps. When in doubt, put your trust in the inefficiencies of NYC.
The footings are an issue as NYCBuilder pointed out. When I was doing an extention in Cobble Hill, we had photos of the footings as well as a concrete sample saved for the CofO inspection. I’d get out.
I’m no architect, but if an Alt-2 was filed, but DOB approved with a notation that a new C/O was required, then you can’t stand on the Alt-2. You would have to get DOB to change its mind.
Seriously, you can make yourself crazy figuring this out, but you can’t solve it from home as the buyer. It is going to take legwork which you should not invest in while the house is someone else’s. Either demand that seller deliver the property to you by a date cetain free and clear of these problems so your bank will close, or you convince the bank to let you close while inheriting the problem. There’s always another house. Sellers also have to know now they will encounter the same thing if they try to sell to someone new, unles an all cash deal. So don’t think you don’t have leverage.
Too belatedly in our situation, we adopted a no bulls–t rule. It’s one thing to encounter a problem, but if you encounter BS, you have to assume it is the tip of the iceberg, and you will make yourself crazy continuing to pursue things as if you were still operating in a good faith world. Figure out your needs and options, set parameters and boundaries, and take control. Don’t get sucked into the vortex. It’s hard to know your in it before you’re in it deep, but it sounds like your wheels are spinning because you are heading there.
Brooklynrulz, yes you are right. According to the title search, the original Cert. of Occupancy was located. But on the same search sheet, it lists the Permit from 2000 as “NOT SIGNED OFF. To demolish and reconstruct one story frame enclosed porch at rear of dwelling. A new certificate of occupancy will be required.”
Could someone have made a mistake? This is a ATL-2, renovation with some plumbing (base board.) Everyone on this block has these 1-story enclosed porches. Based on my research, an updated C of O should not be required, right? There is no change to the use, occupancy or egress (does a new door constitute an egress change?) Mistake? Maybe?
Part of the bank’s mortgage commitment terms and conditions lists Legal Compliance. It says “if requested by the Lender or title insurance company, a copy of the certificate of Occupancy for the property must be provided prior to closing.” Should we have just ignored this CofO issue until closing and crossed our fingers hoping they wouldn’t ask for it?
It sucking right now to be a first time homebuyer, trying to navigate this craziness…
Isn’t the old CofO from 1940 still technically in place until a new one is pulled? I would have thought that what you have is a building with the old CofO, and some uncompleted, filed work. The bank might not want to close with that either, but it’s a little different than having no CofO at all.
I believe the core issue here is the C of O, or lack thereof and the time sensetive nature in obtaining one. Interaction with the DOB unfortunately will be mandatory whether demolishing or legalizing the structure. The reality is that this will take 2 to 3 months (with the right team, including an aggressive seller)to clear up and obtain your C of O.
Its probably more cost effective for the seller to just do away with the structure, for various reasons (too many to list here); however they will still be required to:
-File for a permit. (this will entail sealed drawings!)
-Obtain permit. (this will require a lic. & ins. entity)
-Perform the work.
-Schedule inspection with DOB.
-Submit required sign off docs.
-File for C of O.
Maybe the sellers price can be adjusted by the commensurate amount this “time to cure” will cost in points…
Feel free to email me if you need any more clarification. IL524@hotmail.com