Estimates for Cellar Renovations
I have an unfinished cellar in Park Slope and am ready to start looking soon for architects/contractors. Before I do this, I would really like to have some idea of what I am talking about vis-a-vis what I want to do, and this will depend on cost (I have a feeling some of my ideas…
I have an unfinished cellar in Park Slope and am ready to start looking soon for architects/contractors. Before I do this, I would really like to have some idea of what I am talking about vis-a-vis what I want to do, and this will depend on cost (I have a feeling some of my ideas will cost more than I am prepared to spend).
So here are my questions: Does anyone have a ballpark/rule of thumb way to estimate excavation costs (e.g. $ per cubic foot?), as well as the cost of underpinning party walls ($ per vertical and/or horizontal foot?) as well as for pouring new concrete slab?
The house is brick all around, 35 ft long by 19.5 wide.
Much obliged, Brownstoner people!!
I did this as part of my renovation 2 years ago. Basically I had the dirt dug out to the
bottom of the footing, netting me 8″ of additional ht, leaving me with a 7’2″ ceiling ht.
In the major reno I made sure that all pipes and ducts were located along the bearing
beam or at the far side wall. Also once the floor was poured I had the brick walls
powerwashed to get rid of paint and exposing original brick — including all the brick piers.
Only this year did I finish the space. I installed brazilean walnut floating floor, 8″ base
along the brick (to cover the ugly brick that was below grade), and a few sections
of baseboard electric heat. The reason I went electric is that the space is not used
alot — I currently call it the NFL lounge — and my preferred heat — radiant —
would not be cost effective given the time it would take to bring the floor up to temp.
That being said, I wish I had gone radiant as the floor does feel cold if you spend
much time there.
One other thing I did was install a skylight as the access door in the coal chute area
the opens to the front stoop area — so I actually get some natural light down there.
My best guestimate of the cost to date is $30K. Given that I got 700sqft of living space
it works out to $43/sq ft — a worthwhile investment in my mind.
Next project is a small 6’x6′ corner bar.
99luftballoons-can you post pics of the project?
I appreciate all of the well-meaning and well-informed cautionary tales.
I agree that messing with foundations on townhouses in NYC is a business for licensed pro’s armed with a permit.
If you are not impacting the foundation, and don’t need underpinnings, however, the risks of lowering the basement floor are significantly less.
I currently have 3 permits plastered to my front door but during the past 7 months I have seen absolutely no other permits in my immediate neighborhood with plenty of substantial work going on.
In the tonier parts of Brooklyn, it seems one does nothing without an architect, licensed contractors, permits, structural engineer, interior designer, lawyer, dog walker, etc.
In poorer areas, much renovation work will not follow protocol because it would simply not be affordable or justifiable. One takes risks but they are calculated risks.
In old school Brooklyn (and other boroughs), you build relationship with your neighbors, share tools, know-how, and contractors, and look the other way when necessary. When I tell my neighbors I actually hired an architect for the minimal work I am doing, they react with amusement or surprise. I feel like I have to justify it.
And now that the money is tight, I have to justify it to myself. Let those fingers wag.
deetrane
We used http://www.scordio.com/index.htm
Like others have said this is NOT something you can do with out using properly licensed,insured and experienced contractors and you must have all the requisite DOB permits.
Over the years old row houses settle/move and often all lean slightly on each other. The top of our house is approximately two inches inside our lot line and the integrity of the foundation is paramount. Both side walls are party walls with your neighbors (ours was brick but their side wall was timber) and underpinning needs to be done slowly, properly and carefully.
If this is done poorly the catastrophe that could occur is mind boggling and would open up an endless round of litigation.
Renomandru,
Its a really bad idea to not file a job that involves your (probably shared) foundation. Its almost impossible to know what you are going to find when you start digging.
The main issues:
1. You should have the right insurance for something this risky. If you don’t file and tell the insurance company ahead of time, you probably won’t be covered if you damage your neighbor’s homes.
2. The kinds of damage that can happen cannot be repaired easily and might not be repairable at all.
3. What eman1234 said.
renomandru…all you need is one neighbor to get pissed at you and call 311 and you will nailed and issued a stop work order with the 5000 fine and attendant headaches…do not cheap out and try to game the system…the dob has been converted into a fee generator under bloomberg, more about generating violations than insuring safety…sorry to be a downer, but hire an architect that you trust to file
We did this about 8 years ago and I have two questions for you before you begin: (1) have you ever had any water in the basement, and (2) is there any asbestos?
One thing we did that you should consider is replacing the old cold water feed and steam heat return before they are buried in any new walls. You don’t want them failing after the job is finished.
You’re a madman. But it would be great if you did a B’stoner reno-blog on it.
Wow, thorough overview Johnife. Any recommendations on whom to use for the slab on grade?
The need for underpinnings depends on how far down your current foundation goes on all sides. I did some exploratory digging and found that on one party wall the foundation went down at least 15″ below my current cement slab floor, which should let us go from short of 7′ to about 8′ net when we do this.
Since this is such a large part of the budget, Deetrane, you may want to do the same.
If even you do not plan to do this to code (i.e. using bedrooms and full bath in a “cellar”), I would plan to insulate the mechanical room with fire-proof materials and door(sorry for the imprecise description) and provide a make-up air, typically a 4″ metallic duct to the outside. You likely do not have this today.
If you have brick columns under a support beam that runs from the front of the house to the rear of the house as we do, you will want/need to replace them with more compact metal lally columns to the new floor. However, you will need footings at these points in the floor as the standard floor will not suffice. I suspect it would be difficult to replace a current beam or set a new metal beam and it may not be necessary.
We plan to put in radiant heating as a 4th zone to our current Burnham, just like Nena. Our house is 17.5 x 35 and I plan to do the excavating and slab work for 20K. Call me crazy, but we will do a lot of this ourselves.
While we have filed permits for other work, I currently don’t plan to file for this work as I am not changing egress, plumbing, or the use of the space. Anybody know if a simple drop of the floor requires a permit?