Tankless Water Heaters...Thoughts?
Hi – I’m thinking of replacing our electric water heater with an electric tankless model. (gas models are out of the question as venting would be difficult and likely not allowed in our condo.) Our needs are pretty simple – 3 person family w/ one bathroom; washing machine, dishwasher, kitchen sink. We realize we may…
Hi – I’m thinking of replacing our electric water heater with an electric tankless model. (gas models are out of the question as venting would be difficult and likely not allowed in our condo.)
Our needs are pretty simple – 3 person family w/ one bathroom; washing machine, dishwasher, kitchen sink. We realize we may need to run new larger sized wiring to handle the increased amperage but we have our own 100amp 230v service panel in the apartment – located nearby the existing water heater.
Master Plvmber, have you done these installations and do you have a ballpark figure for labor costs? (either including or excluding the electrical work)
Anyone else have an opinion? I’m convinced we will save serious $$$ over time.
i’ve decided against going tankless. even if i had 200 amp electrical service i wouldn’t do it based on all the negative feedback i’ve read.
in theory its a great idea but obviously these units need a lot of juice and the cost of providing that electrical upgrade defeats the purpose…
oh well, thanks again for chiming in everyone…
Thanks, vbp, I can read. But what’s “required” may sometimes be in the eye of the poster.
OP: Note at 2.25 gal/min (1 shower) the temp. rise noted is 43deg, fine for summer (70->113) but not for winter. In winter you need 70-80 deg rise, and this heater cannot do it. 2-bath tankless typically need 150A.
Afa the actual energy usage is concerned tank vs tankless, there’s debate on this. 15-20% savings is very questionable. Tank electric heaters have hardly any loss (the reason gas tankless may be better is that gas tanks have much higher standby losses), and that’s the ONLY difference (ie the heating method is the same.)
genarro, cmu, just to focus the conversation, the OP *requires* an electric heater…
sorry about the memory lapse regarding price, but a i did that job 3 or 4 years ago…plus i mark up all goods that i provide to clients by 30%, since i warrant the goods for a year and a half…if the client buys it for a lower price, let them call the company themselves and figure out why it doesnt work… in the case of electric on demand, look at the steibel charts carefully, and oversize if your electric service allows it.. you can also gang them to meet your needs, if that is an option
http://www.stiebel-eltron-usa.com/chart_tempra.html
re electric needs
http://www.e-tankless.com/electric-tankless-installation.php
i second cmu that electric is not the way to go. Electric IMO is just going up in cost as well. Natural gas is cheap. What about a good efficient boiler or tankless gas that doesn’t need all the fancy venting. You know, one that can vent with a normal PVC tube because it is so efficient.
eman, all the models i’ve seen online from steibel eltron are single phase…and way under $1,000.
the flow rate seems to be a big factor, i need to check that out..
here’s the link to the tech info…
http://www.stiebel-eltron-usa.com/techdata_tempra.html
cmu, yeah, i’d prefer to have a gas water heater but as my post states i’m forced to go with electric. the electric tankless models have supposedly been proven to use less electricity than traditional electric tanks. stiebel claims 15-20% less. [not efficiency, but actual usage.] that’s why i’d like to make the switch, as i agree that electric rates are out of control. please do check the specs and tell us if you think they are questionable – i’m just trying to save money.
eman, all the models i’ve seen online from steibel eltron are single phase…and way under $1,000.
the flow rate seems to be a big factor, i need to check that out..
here’s the link to the tech info…
http://www.stiebel-eltron-usa.com/techdata_tempra.html
cmu, yeah, i’d prefer to have a gas water heater but as my post states i’m forced to go with electric. the electric tankless models have supposedly been proven to use less electricity than traditional electric tanks. stiebel claims 15-20% less. [not efficiency, but actual usage.] that’s why i’d like to make the switch, as i agree that electric rates are out of control. please do check the specs and tell us if you think they are questionable – i’m just trying to save money.
It’s ridiculous to install an electric water heater given today’s rates. The comparisons you see are for 8c/kwh electric, we pay 22-25c/kwh! So they cost up to 2.5x that of gas. There’s NO such thing as a “more efficient” electric heater, they’re ALL 100% efficient.
Also, there’s something wrong with the specs; 230v 60a = 14kw = < 75kbu, which can give you only abt 1.5 gals/min, which is very low. Barely enough for a shower.
i installed a steibel eltron two phase unit in a one bedroom loft in tribeca…it needed a 2 phase 60 amp circuit, and as a remember ran around $1300 for the unit alone, and i charged the same for installation…the problem was that in the winter the incoming water temperature dropped to a level beyond the ability of the unit to heat it ..with tech support from the manufacturer, i was able to solve the problem by choking the flow rate to the unit…not my favorite solution, but it worked