100 k--how far can this go
Just closing on a brownstone and want to do work on the parlor floor (Ultimately this first project would be ‘phase one’ of an overall plan for the house.) What we are hoping to do in the short term is install new flooring, expand the kitchen, convert a full bath to a half, renovate the…
Just closing on a brownstone and want to do work on the parlor floor (Ultimately this first project would be ‘phase one’ of an overall plan for the house.) What we are hoping to do in the short term is install new flooring, expand the kitchen, convert a full bath to a half, renovate the parlor floor fireplace and possibly open up the wall into the stairwell. Our overall budget for this one floor would be 100-
$150k (not including architect design fees or incidentals.)
Am I crazy to think we can do all this with this budget?
If you were an architect would you consider taking this gig?
I just want to make sure I’m not approaching architects and offending them or sending them into fits of laughter by even suggesting it…
If I were paying 14-25% fee for an architect it would be for a building I bought dirt cheap and was gutting completely.
I’d NEVER waste that kind of money on simply installing a kitchen and bathroom. Absurd. You can buy all your appliances and really nice ones, for that chunk of change.
Smokychimp,
New York architects charge more like 10%-25% for their fees. I’m talking strictly residential work, though. I don’t know any NY architect who charges less than 14% for “custom” or “high end residential” myself. 7-12% are Midwest fee basis rates. If they are doing less than that, they are providing a much, much lower level of service than anyone deserves to have.
On the rest of your comments, though, I agree.
Hang on here, % renovation fee is not the only way architectural or design firms work. It’s the way they almost always work on larger projects, but on small projects (and don’t haze me for saying the industry definition of small project is under $1 million) anything goes — flat fee, percentage, whatever you can agree on. In terms of percentages, the ranges talked about above are high — I think it’s closer to 7-12% average with 15% toward the higher end firms. I worked for Philip Johnson for ten years, and never saw him demand a commission of more than 12%. If he didn’t command it, what are us little ducks going to do?
The unknown about rates is understandable since it is collusion (Sherman Anti-trust etc) to fix rates within an industry. Architects can’t discuss it, and generally don’t, and the AIA can’t recommend suggested rates for work.
There are plenty of small firms around will take on a project no matter how small. It so happens that when a firm crosses a threshold of about 8-10 people, as 1:54 posts it no longer makes economic sense to work on projects that cannot meet certain profit.
As 7:03 suggests, if you are working on a budget of 100-150k there are PLENTY of young and hungry, talented people out there who will do the work. And if it’s one of their first projects you can be assured that you will get serious attention to your project, far more than the established firm to be honest.
Don’t believe the hype. There are plenty of architects out there who would be psyched to work with you with this budget. Personally, I don’t really understand the % of renovation budget as a fee model—it seems to reward going over budget etc. Hire an architect either by the hour or for a flat fee (in which case you should pay them in installments). Your budget should have nothing to do with their pay scale.
As someone who started their reno without an architect (but now has one) –I can tell you that if I could go back and do it over again–I would. A good architect can really guide you through the process but you should not have to pay through the nose for that service.
You should be able to find a single architect (or very small firm; i.e. 4 employees) to do this work for you. But you may have trouble finding a firm that has multiple employees to do this work for you. Your budget is small, so the fee will be small. Fortunately for you, this city is full of 1-5 person firms, so even though the job is small, there should be plenty of architects who will do this for you.
Really – brownstones are SO easy to renovate without an architect – just look at the floorplans of brownstones listed at the real estate sites and pick one you like that has similar dimensions to your house. There are really only so many possible layouts – it’s really stupid to pay an architect.
So basically this is the reality of the brownstone market according to the experts on the Brownstoner website: you HAVE to use an architect, if you don’t you’re a “cheap” loser (a refrain we hear many times on Forum on many threads); and architects ONLY take on projects that cost $250,000 and above. Therefore, if you can’t afford to spend more than $250,000 on renovations alone, you are not allowed to own a house in Brooklyn.
Nice to see there aren’t any elitists promoting exclusivity around here. Because as we know, Brooklyn is so liberal, diverse, cool and authentic and nothing like Manhattan.
Come on! If there hadn’t been tons of people with moderate incomes buying brownstones in the 70’s, 80’s and early 90’s in the now blue-chip neighborhoods of Brooklyn, and fixing the houses gradually over the years on the cheap, there would be NO Park Slope as it is now. Gentrification started with a wave of artists and academics and people who were not wealthy. Nobody says you have to fix up a whole house all at once for lots of money for it to be done right. I’ve lived in historic houses in historic neighborhoods all my life since college, and this is the way those who truly love old houses have always done it. If you want an all-new interior all at once, and nothing lumpy or old looking in it, buy a condo.
Except, 1:54, nobody here even once said they should HAVE to take the job. Nobody. They just said don’t be rude snobs about it, that’s all. It’s hardly some kind of outrageous suggestion.
Smokychimp,
How much do architects charge either as a % of the job or on an hourly basis? What is the range?