poll: add a powder room to the main floor of a house or have a bigger, better kitchen?
Just beginning renovation, and we’ve planned to build a powder room basically in the kitchen because there is no bathroom on the main floor. I have two young kids and can’t imagine constantly running up and down the stairs with them. But if we decide against it, we’ll have a much better kitchen. We’ll have…
Just beginning renovation, and we’ve planned to build a powder room basically in the kitchen because there is no bathroom on the main floor. I have two young kids and can’t imagine constantly running up and down the stairs with them. But if we decide against it, we’ll have a much better kitchen. We’ll have two bathrooms upstairs and one in the basement (once it’s finished–which isn’t happening right away) Any opinions?
Forget about resale value and what your guests would like — think about your own family. In our brownstone, nearly all of the living is done on the kitchen/parlor floor. We have a full bath there. Like Ms. Limestone, we thought about making it smaller to expand the kitchen when we first renovated, and decided not to take out a tub already there. We do regret that decision (never use the tub), but I would HATE to live without just a small powder room on the parlor floor.
Our powder room’s entrance is angled, and the door isn’t by the kitchen (and gives a bit of privacy), so perhaps if I had to look into the toilet while I cooked I would think differently. But if the powder room is well-placed on that floor, I would bet that you don’t regret having it. Our toilet was broken for a day, and it was such a pain to troop up stairs each time you wanted to wash hands or use the toilet. Especially with kids — even my 8 yr old can’t easily reach the higher kitchen sink to wash hands comfortably. Of course, you can always live without it, but I’d prefer a slightly smaller dining room or living space (or even kitchen) to having to change floors all the time, especially if most of your living is on that floor.
We added a powder room to our kitchen when we renovated, and I’m still very ambivalent about it. First off, pay no attention to “resale value” and all that stuff unless you are planning to move right away. This is your house and you’ll be living in it – make it the way that’s best for you. I don’t like having a bathroom in my kitchen, simply for the reason that I don’t like looking at the toilet in it as I’m cooking, which I spend a fair bit of time doing. I’m seriously considering taking it out – and like you, I could have a significantly nicer kitchen if I did (upon payment of a not small bill), or making it a bit smaller. There’s a place I could jam it in in the dining room, or I could just go without. Our kids are older now, and they often use the upstairs bathrooms anyway. Our interior designer cautioned against putting a bathroom in the dining room, however. Bottom line for me is the downstairs powder room is nice to have, but not essential. Don’t be afraid to go without it, if you really love to cook and spend lots of time in the kitchen…..
If there is a formal dining room, try knocking out the wall entirely between the kitchen and dining room, extending the kitchen along the wall of the dining room making it an eat-in kitchen. Then you get the powder room and a larger kitchen both. I myself prefer formal dining rooms even for eating everyday, but that’s where I’m odd. Most people want open layouts and eat-in kitchens these days.
do you have an architect? is there a way to jam a powder room under the stairs? is there any other way to put in a tiny bathroom taking space from elsewhere?
I realized that some of you might have been talking about adding a powder room as a 2nd bathroom. But if you have two bathrooms already like we do, in basement and 2nd floor, then a 3rd bathroom is not the best investment if you’re looking mostly at return. Also it’s about what your neighbors are doing. Two bathrooms really is expected in a house or owners duplex in a house. But so is Central AC and we personally would never spend the money to add that then spend even more money to run it. One has to draw the line somewhere. Unless you have unlimited resources of course.
Excerpts from the NY Times in April 2006
Renovating With Profit in Mind? It Just Might Not Pay
“Last November’s report, which also appeared in the December issue of Realtor magazine, said a minor kitchen remodeling would cost $14,913 and return 98.5 percent of that investment when the house was sold.”
“Consider, for instance, the question of adding a bathroom. The Remodeling magazine report estimates that it would cost $22,977, with a 86.4 percent return, at best. But agents may say that a house with one bathroom in a neighborhood where two bathrooms is the norm is at a disadvantage when the house goes on the market. Mr. Baker said that the homeowner might then see a good return on the investment by making the house competitive. But, he said, someone adding a third bathroom to a house in that neighborhood might get little return.”
I’m 9:48 – sure, it’s only a year of assisting a toddler with the bathroom – but I also use the powder room to change my younger children, and to put the dirty diapers. But I like having my kid being on the same floor as me when I’m cooking instead of being up to something nefarious upstairs… The other thing to consider is the location. If the only place for the bathroom is in your kitchen or opens into your kitchen, absolutely not! Is there a way to have the door open into the hallway instead of the kitchen? Also consider the fact that you are not making your guests go #2 in the powder room, they have the option of going upstairs. It’s up to them. And if you have kids, there are going to be a lot of playdates, birthday parties and it’s nice to not have them go through the house to use the bathroom. I am pleasantly surprised at how much I do use the powder room. It’s great for taking the kids for a last-minute pee before heading out the door. Also great for washing hands before meals (and not in the kitchen sink).
“For resale, a bigger kitchen is better. Stats support that. Kitchen is the #1 best return on renovation investment in a house”
sure, but this stat is irrelevant.
kitchens provide the greatest return. but the stats don’t reflect if there is a bigger return between “bigger kitchen/no bathroom” vs. “smaller kitchen/bathroom”.
renovating a smaller kitchen will add some value. adding a powder room will also add value. will the sum of these 2 items add more value than renovating a larger kitchen? that’s the question.
you are shoehorning this “statistic” into an argument where it doesn’t fit.
7:46 said:
“I would definitley put in the powder room – think of the resalle value. I would have a difficult time buying a house without a bathroom on the main floor. I would hate to have visitors go upstairs to the bedrooom area to use a toilet.”
See, that’s so interesting, because I come to completely different conclusions when confronting these same questions. For resale, a bigger kitchen is better. Stats support that. Kitchen is the #1 best return on renovation investment in a house. And as for guests, I actually think it’s nicer for them to have some privacy. Think how embarrassing it is to go #2 at someone’s house, open the door directly onto the kitchen and everybody on the parlor floor gets a whiff. You’ll need to add a fan to help that, also so they don’t feel like everyone can hear them. I only believe in main-floor bathrooms when the bathroom is down a hallway and discreet. Most Brooklyn houses are too small for a truly discreet and private bathroom or powder room on the main floor. To me this question is always evidence of people living in the city and wanting a suburban life in it. Sorry if that’s condescending but I do think that.
We had a similar decision although we had a large full bathroom already there. We knew we wanted to take some of that space to make a larger kitchen but we also considered making it a much smaller half bath so we could gain even more room in the kitchen.
Ultimately we decided to keep the full bathroom but just scale it back in size. It would have been nice to have an extra 20 inches or so in the kitchen but I didn’t want to give up the option of having a tub on the main floor for possible dog baths/children bath/moonshine production.
I can’t say if we made the right decision or not but Id definitely suggest putting in a powder room. My old house has only one bath on the top floor and while you do get used to it, its not great for children, entertaining.
Provided your kitchen isn’t super cramped, I find that you make due with whatever size kitchen you have. It just requires you be more judicious about your setup and storage layout.