Sagging floors - all 4 floors of brownstone
A 20′ wide 4 story brownstone I am looking to buy has sagging on all floors – the floor, ceiling line and door frames slope in from the sides in towards the center of the floor. The topmost floor sags the most such that there are cracks on some of the walls that run across…
A 20′ wide 4 story brownstone I am looking to buy has sagging on all floors – the floor, ceiling line and door frames slope in from the sides in towards the center of the floor. The topmost floor sags the most such that there are cracks on some of the walls that run across the floor – as though if the cracks worsen the walls might break off from the side walls. The stairs on all levels also slope in significantly from the side.
I had a structural engineer friend take a look and he said that the beams that run the length of the house need support. That the house will need to be jacked up, and then the beam will be sistered or replaced with a steel beam. He says the jacking up process can take weeks as this is done inches at a time – especially since there are cracks showing in the walls.
My questions are
1 Has anyone done this before – it sounds very involved.
2. How much could this cost?
I am also looking to dig out about 1.5’/2′ in the cellar as the cellar height right now is about 6′ (or slightly less in the middle where the ceiling sags).
Thanks
We did this and got great results. But we wouldn’t do it without the oversight and plans that we got from our structural engineer. He was great. But using him slowed the process down enormously. It’s not a tough job to do at all. But there’s science and math involved and you need an expert to do the figuring and materials list and details for you. And that takes time to get someone to make the plans for you. And then they also charge you to come out to make sure it’s all proceeding safely. We didn’t have problems with rotting joists or floorboards. I wouldn’t stress about that unless your structural engineer says you should. And we did a major gut/demolition after our structural work, so we would have seen any problems. And of course problems can always be solved if you discover them. The cost that was high to us was the added time it took to do this all correctly. It probably added 5 months to our renovations including plans being drawn up, filed, approved, bid out to contractors and so on. Good luck.
Thanks for all the advice. I sent you an email offline Bruce.
11:37 is basically correct. Jacking old beams may not work in that they may not be straight anymore. Usually they are banana shaped and lifting them one third of the way over means the end is too high. WIthout opening the ceilings, it is impossible to know if mortise joints let go, which could be fixed by jacking up to close the splits and big teco’s. That is more a localized situation, your house sounds more widespread.
Digging out basements can’t go further down than footing under your walls, and depending on your geography, water table may come up from below. Been there done that. Feel free to email me off-line, bruce@jerseydata.net
Z, can you provide the name of the people who dug down your basement and poured the new concrete floor? I am looking for someone to do a similar job. Thanks
as for the basement project, we recently removed the existing concrete floor, dug down a little less than a foot, and poured a new concrete floor. we also installed a drainage system since we were digging down anyway. the masonry cost was around $6,000, and the plumbing was around $3,000. you may not be able to dig down as deep as you want; it depends on the state of your foundation and pilings surrounding any columns. we weren’t able to tell how far down we could dig until we actually started digging.
Disclaimer:
I am not an architect or a structural engineer, but I am working closely with one of each on gutting a brownstone right now.
JMHO, “jacking up” a house in order to level it is usually asinine. The reason your floors are sagging is because your joists are rotten. Why bother going to all the trouble to jack up crap?
Your joists are not *exactly* structural. Make sure you are supporting the main load-bearing wall that runs parallel to the main beam, and cut out the joists and replace them with new ones.
No more sag. No cracked plaster.
And the person who said that your house would or could fall down because your joists are sagging is full of poop. Your house is a brownstone. Brownstones are built to hold eachother up. The important walls are the party walls. Make sure both your party walls are looking tight as can be. They are holding up your joists, your roof, and everything else.
For added insurance, make sure your front and back wall are good (although they mostly hold themselves up) and that your foundation is sound.
Everything else is replacable. Even the main beam and the load-bearing wall that runs through each floor over the beam–these are stiffeners and not so much structural “necessities” (although I certainly would not take this wall out without jackstands in place first).
If this house is not a brownstone, then forget everything I am saying. Frame houses are totally different and I don’t know anything about them.
But this is not a “scary” problem as far as brownstones go. Brownstones get saggy joists. The joists get either replaced or repaired.
Darlin’ why??? please proceed with great caution.
Some friends of mine did this themselves a few years ago, but only on one floor. They documented it all on their blog…
http://mokindo.typepad.com/649_6th/2005/11/house_jacked.html
There is a strong possibility that the house will fall down if jacked up. It will also cost you at least $150,000.