3 family used as a 4 family
At the end of this month I am closing on a 3-family building that is currently set-up as a 4-family (i.e. full kitchen in garden-level, kitchenette on parlor, kitchen on third floor, kitchen on fourth floor). This building has been used by a single family for 50+ years, so I am the first non-family member…
At the end of this month I am closing on a 3-family building that is currently set-up as a 4-family (i.e. full kitchen in garden-level, kitchenette on parlor, kitchen on third floor, kitchen on fourth floor). This building has been used by a single family for 50+ years, so I am the first non-family member to take ownership of this property since then. It is listed as a 3-family but has been used as a 4-family for so many years. Why can’t I continue to use the space the way it has been used? I’d like to live in the garden-level and rent out the top three floors. If necessary, I’ll create a duplex out of the garden and parlor-level and get a “roommate” who will use the kitchenette on their floor and will be separate from me. What’s wrong with this? If there is something wrong, who has the right to come into my home to do an inspection? If they find the kitchenette a problem, I bought the place set up as it is, I didn’t put something in illegally. What exactly defines an “apartment” anyway vs. a roommate situation on two floors? Thanks.
OP there’s nothing to think about. The issue is that other tenants can legally not pay rent if you are occupying the building contrary to its CofO, regardless of your personal interpretation of what an apartment is. Believe me the DOB does not share your self serving views.
I guess you didn’t really want opinions on this from people who have actual experiences, you just want to do whatever it is you feel serves you best despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Well, you will see how that turns out when one of your tenants calls the fire department or the DOB and you have a mess on your hands.
There is no reason not to legally convert the use to a 4 family, unless you are intending to use the duplex yourself not too far in the distant future. A legal apartment has greater value to a prospective tenant, and keeps you on the right side of code. All the issues brought up here: the possibility that an insurance co would not pay out on a claim if you are not using the building the way it is zoned; that any ‘lease’ you right would be unenforceable; that you are wide open to a variety of risks including from your tenant, and from the dob. Actually, it all raises the question of how you got your loan, and what the lender knew when they approved the loan.
It is always best to do things pretty much by the book, as you never, ever, ever, know when and how these issues will play out.
As an aside: I don’t rent to friends, though many of my tenants have become friends. When you rent to friends, the expectation is that you will give someone a better deal than they could otherwise get. Owning rental property is expensive, though profitable over time, and comes with responsibilities that one should get paid for. If your friend wants to live near you, they can rent down the street and get the same deal without the potential guilt on both sides. If you are going to go through the trouble of owning more space than you need, it should generate a profit of some sort, unless you are providing housing for family members who need it.
Good luck
just because you don’t have a signed written lease does not exempt you from the law. you fall under month to month lease
legally you have no right to collect money for an illegal appartment
the rule of a kitchen does not encompass the whole illegal conversion violations, you can also violate code with SRO tenants
a roomate shares all of your space other than your bedroom, so if you have separate living arangements in a single occupancy this would be a violation
OP Again: Thank you for an interesting discussion. I appreciate all of your input — even those of you who are telling me things I don’t want to hear. When dealing with roommates, there’s always a degree of calculated risk (i.e. will we get along, will he/she have loud overnight guests, will he/she pay their portion of the monthly “rent”, etc.). Guess I have to decide if it’s worth making that kind of a gamble as opposed to renting the duplex to someone else while occupying one of the smaller units. The problem with that is that the people in the duplex will be setup with fire/burglar alarm and code, and my dog and I won’t have access to the garden …. I’ve got a lot of thinking to do.
Do not pay attention to the poster who said no one can enter your building without your permission. If the tenant calls the fire department they CAN enter your building without you there and then send building inspectors after you and issue violations. Calculated risk, what hogwash. You are asking for a whole lot of misery my friend.
I don’t understand alot of these comments — can someone please explain why the OP can’t make a duplex from the bottom 2 floors, and inhabit it himself with a roommate? There’s nothing illegal about taking a roommate — in fact, contrary to what the OP proposes, I think his roommate should have a lease the same way any roomate who shares an apartment with a leaseholder would. Don’t some of you rent your completely legal apartments to roommates? There’s no law that says that persons living in a single apartment must be part of a single family, is there? If so, I know hundreds of people breaking that law unknowingly.
The only question of legality is the 2nd kitchen. Clearly, the OP needs to change that kitchen into something legal, and he has expressed the desire to do so. So, if it turns out it is legal to have a 2nd refrigerator, and even a sink, why can’t he have one?
Can all of you posters please explain why this is so horrible? I don’t see anything illegal going on here, unless I’m missing something.
lot of righteous snotty comments. your situation come up often, and, when it does, the owner takes a calculated risk knowing tenants can withhold rent, etc. that being said, no one can enter your property without your permission, so, be safe and responsible and the risk is your own. don’t be bullied by anonymous sniping.
Whoa whoa whoa. Ripping off friends?
I have an owner’s duplex that has a “convenience kitchen” upstairs, and I have a friend who’s a roommate with no lease and her rent is great for what she gets, which is basically an apartment with an extremely tiny kitchen.
Everybody’s happy here, I like my roommate and she likes me. She’s not exactly my tenant because she’s living in my house. She’s my roommate.
I can see how giving someone an illegal lease is asking for trouble, but I am not doing that. I am asking a friend to help me with my living expenses by offering her some room to call her own in exchange for a little rent. Where’s the ripping off part?
Happens all the time: people buy houses with violations etc. The buyer is responsible. Just because it was illegal when you bought does not clear the violation. You have a LOT to learn about home ownership in NYC.