Re: Renovation...let's get this straight
I’m hoping for some clarity on brownstone renovation or just home renovation period. I’ve been on this site lurking for more than a year, and seems to be the case that people give renovation quotes that are rather costly. You’re going to laugh, but I’ve been watching Flip That House all this weekend, and home…
I’m hoping for some clarity on brownstone renovation or just home renovation period. I’ve been on this site lurking for more than a year, and seems to be the case that people give renovation quotes that are rather costly. You’re going to laugh, but I’ve been watching Flip That House all this weekend, and home owners have been renovating for less than 40K. While granted they didn’t use ultra high end, they did use materials that looked mid-level that came out pretty well. I even saw a rip down and add an extension, redo a kitchen and bath, and remove mold from a living room that was flooded for under 30K. Maybe I’m missing something. Why is it that I often see people saying that you should expect to pay about $250 per sq. foot? For a 4 story 3600 sq. ft brownstone that doesn’t seem practical. Is it just a New York thing?
Ummm …it’s called show business.
I love HGTV as much as anyone else, but these shows are completely unrealistic. Yes, NY is more expensive than many other areas due to high labor and insurance costs. But I have noticed that sometimes the prices they claim wouldn’t even cover materials, much less materials + labor. It’s a fantasy that keeps us coming back to the TV.
I am about 4 months away from finishing a renovation/restoration of my brownstone. It is costing me 400K for about 3,500 sq ft which included a new 3 story 1,500 sq ft rear yard addition and 2,000 sq ft of interior renovation/restoration. The level of the finish is high end with custom millwork and plaster work.
I was able to get the cost down in several ways: I acted as my own GC and did a lot of the work myself. I also imported a good amount of my materials (wood flooring, cast plaster, marble) from South America (where I travel often). This saved me huge money.
Yes, I saved a lot, but this was tremendous work and I don’t think I would go through it again. But would anyone go through such a reno again ;)?? On the flip side, I got a house that I could not have afforded otherwise.
I seem to disagree with the received wisdom on this list a lot.
We had small contractors (probably unlicenced) do our work (and, judging from the posts here, had about the same trouble as the norm.) We had our bathroom redone with nice tile (not glass) and 2 of 3 fixtures replaced for less than 10,000, including replacing warped door. Our IKEA kitchen was installed, including wiring and plumbing from floor below, (no tearouts or walls moved) for 15,000.
Of course, if you want Viking stoves, every high end geegaw and perfect waxed trim, it will run you high.
My wife and I renovated our kitchen for about $5000, but we did all the work except for the plumbing and electric. It also took us a year of weekends to do it. Labor is the major cost. On those renovation shows these costs are not accounted for since they bring a bunch of skilled laborers in for free. Plus their results aren’t as good. We spent a lot of time on plaster work, on those shows they would just slap up some drywall.
Both of us are pretty handy and my wife, the architect, drew up very good plans with just the right materials so we never had to redo anything. Redos are the major cause of costs getting out of control.
My bathroom cost $500. sq ft to renovate. I did use hi-end fixtures, glass tile, etc. That’s the NY cost if you have an excellent contractor who’s hands on, personally doing the work and a perfectionist to every detail. As the project evolved we did more than I originally envisioned. Process as part of the end result — if you are part of the process, discuss and exchange ideas as the project evolves, the results will surpass the original concept and an appreciation of work done is even greater. A good renovation is an art form in my book.
” a rip down and add an extension, redo a kitchen and bath, and remove mold from a living room that was flooded for under 30K” I have to say that I think this is kinda like the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus. The single objective, the sole priority, in flipping the house is maximising profit. I think the work you see is not designed to be much more than cosmetic, corners are cut, detail and quality is sacrificed, and hey, the guy who is flipping is never going to actually live in the house so – why does he really care. He just wants the cash. Its the complete opposite when you are reading posts on this board. I would think that most who post here are people who are renovating the property to improve the quality of their life while living in the property. Whole different set of priorities. Do you really think that the 30g rip down/ extension / bath / kitchen will hold up over time?
We just designed and built a house in Alabama for relatives and it was near the same cost as in one of the outer boroughs. Everything depends on the quality that you expect from your contractor and the level of finishes that you select. In Manhattan, renovations do run anywhere between $100 – $1,0000 per square foot. You can renovate cheaply in NY and you can renovate expensively in the Midwest or South. That’s why there is always so much debate over the cost on this site. You never know what you’re going to spend until it’s designed and bid, or until you start building it yourself.
It’s definitely a NY thing. I watch the same programs on HGTV, Fine Living, etc., and the cost of renovations for the featured homes are unrealistic in the NYC market. It makes you wonder if we’re all insane for paying what we do to live here, and I’m a life-long CG resident.
Oh, man, I LOVE Richard Davis. I watch that show with a obsessive fascination, but they work in Charlston, SC. A couple of things come to mind. You can get much much cheaper renovation costs that are quoted on this board by doing your research on contractors to get competant and lower priced labor. There is a big range on the cost of contractors out there and competance is not what differentiates them. I got relatively inexpensive labor, so my costs were below a lot of the numbers quoted here, but I was very hands on and the contractor had a hard time with a lot of the historical details (no experience with them, no real interest either). Also he was Bob the builder, not a designer and I had to redo a lot of what he did because I did not know enough to direct him properly (at first) and did not have an architect. What I would do now, if I had to do it over (and I may) is get a good architect to help me design everything down to every electrical outlets, light fixture, molding, exact placement of bathroom fixtures etc so that I could hand over the plans and have the contractor follow exact instructions and to have some architect follow up. I tried doing everything myself and relyed on the contractor for a lot of design decisions which didn’t work out too well – i.e. had to do a lot over again and the job took about three times the amount of time it should have but in the end a decent job at a fraction of the numbers often quoted here. I always marvel at how fast Richard and company do those jobs. Part of that is their organization, knowledge and ability to knowledgeably hire contracting help and the fact that they are working in South Carolina. Hey look at the cost of the houses. Also, you don’t see them getting bogged down in restoring a lot of historical details either or working around tenants. Their philosphy, “get in and get out”…