Removing wall between apartments
We are buying two apartments with adjoining living rooms. We plan to knock down the wall between the two apartments. Can anyone recommend a contractor or architect who can help us do this, including help us with drawing up the plan to get this approved by the condo board and the DOB? I know it’s…
We are buying two apartments with adjoining living rooms. We plan to knock down the wall between the two apartments. Can anyone recommend a contractor or architect who can help us do this, including help us with drawing up the plan to get this approved by the condo board and the DOB? I know it’s a small project, but I have a feeling we will need to get a lot of approvals!!! (It’s a new development, if that helps.) Thanks!
I’ve just been reading these posts. Many of you are mistaken. Apartments cannot be combined (in the eyes of the DoB) if the combination creates a non-complying condition that affects the life safety and welfare of the newly combined apartment, or other adjacent apartments. Examples of this would be the minimum amount of “legal” light and air serving any habitable spaces, the length of egress travel both within the apartment and from the apartment door to a fire rated stair or fire escape, ventilation requirements of kitchens and/or bathrooms, fire separtion between apartments, etc. So, while a bank and the condo assocation might give you permission to combine the apartments on paper, the DoB actually has the authority to approve whether you put a door between the apartments or rip down the walls between the apartments. So, you definitely need an architect to evaluate the consequences and feasibility of combining the apartments to make sure you can do this legally. It would be a mistake to buy the adjacent apartment, if you had no idea if you could combine them with the DoB. An engineer or an architect can produce and stamp the drawings that you need for the building and the DoB. Your building should have an Alteration Agreement that you need to abide by that the architect would need to review in order to give you the required drawings. I hope this helps.
You can put a door between 2 apartments if the door is fire-rated. You can’t put such a door in between two apartments without getting permission from the DOB — that’s completely true. However, my understand is that the legal combination of two apartments is done by filing an amended declaration of condominium (usually requires a supermajority of unit owners to agree), NOT by the DOB.
that’s the illegal part. you can’t put a door between two separate apartments unless you legally combine them with the DoB. You would be violating the fire separation between two legally separate units.
I’m sure people do this all the time, but it’s not legal.
BTW, a PE is a Professional Engineer, not a Physical Engineer.
I don’t think we’ve ever indicated that we want to do anything illegal. when I discussed not *legally* combining the apartments, I was talking about not amending the declaration, so that the two condos are still considered two separate apartments as opposed to one being considered one apartment. We would not consider doing the word without filing with the DOB — that’s just asking for trouble.
It is illegal to do what you are thinking of doing. Any good condo or co-op board will issue you a fine you if you knock down walls and do not file it with the Dept. of Buildings.
An expediter will cost you about $1500. An architect to do this simple drawing should be about the same, maybe slightly more. And it probably will only take a month, maybe two to do the drawing and get the approval with the city. The biggest variable is the time it takes to get the building management approval and/or the bank approval. It’s not that big of a deal, really. Of course you need to make sure the wall is not structural, but that is simple to do. You also need to verify the travel distances in the new combined apartment. Some buildings require you to remove one of your entrance doors if they are not needed as a second means of egress from your apartment. You can’t legally do the work without filing with the city.
We are 99.9% sure that the wall is not load bearing, so that shouldn’t be an issue. The discussion of having 2 kitchens is extremely interesting, and certainly something we need to think about before going further. Again, many thanks to all for the valuable input.
Whats a Physical Engineer??? P.E????
They are the highest ranking engineer that know about structure better than the average architect. If you think “just knocking down a wall” is no big deal, you are seriously mistaken and being extremely wreckless. The wall could be load bearing and if you remove it you are comprimising the integrity of the building.
This is something that must be studied carefully.
I knew people that actually combined their coop with the coop in the neighboring building and went through the wall seperating the buildings. They put in a doorway. When they sold they sold each apartment seperately.
As an aside to this conversation of combing apartments.
You can legally combine the apartments and keep both kitchens if you keep a kosher home or if instead of knocking down the wall you install fire rated doors.
For a kosher home you need a letter from a Rabbi and submit it with your Department of Buildings forms and drawings.
As for the doors, I like to design them as pocket doors these doors are connected to fusible links so they close automatically incase of a fire. It is a more money but you get the look and two kitchens. This method also requires that a letter be filed with the City Registrars office. This letter says that the owner will remove the door and close the opening as to create a fire rated partition.
These are the basics on having an apartment with two kitchens. I know it’s not exactly on subject but a reader might find it interesting or useful.
Robert
Thanks so much for the advice! We’re only taking a mortgage on one of the two apartments — the mortgage guys have said they don’t care what we do after closing regarding knocking down the wall, so we’re all good there. We may eventually want to combine the apartments legally, but for now, we don’t want to deal with the hassle. I’ve read the NYT article on the topic, and it seems like such a pain! I think we’ll probably only go that route if we’re settling in really long-term, and need the extra space from the second kitchen.
Thanks again!