New mechanicals means tearing down the walls?
I have spoken to two contractors about working on my new home, a 120 year old row house. Both contractors have said that they would tear down all the plaster walls and ceilings in order to replace the plumbing and electric. The walls are in near perfect shape. Is this true?? I am in the…
I have spoken to two contractors about working on my new home, a 120 year old row house. Both contractors have said that they would tear down all the plaster walls and ceilings in order to replace the plumbing and electric. The walls are in near perfect shape. Is this true??
I am in the process of finding a contractor to work on my new home. It is a 120 year old row house in unbelievable condition. Same family lived in it for 60 years and maintained it beautifully. There is some peeling paint and a few hairline cracks but absolutely no holes or water damage or rot (that we or our architect has found). Both contactors said they would rip down the walls to replace the mechanicals and then drywall. They said, “Its fast and cheaper to do that.” and “You aren’t going to find a GC to poke around to save the old plaster walls.” Then they quoted 2.2 million dollars for the work on a near perfect (but old) 3500 sq.ft. rowhouse. We are not looking for perfection. I like the old hand plastered walls. The occasional bump has a thousand times the character as new dry wall. Does anyone have a contractor who can replace mechanicals in an old house without gutting it?
I’m an architect, not really a brownstone specialist, but I know enough to know that It sounds like you have:
A) Hired an architect that has no idea what he is doing in this type of project. And . .
B) Hired a contractor that is taking you for a ride. You did get multiple bids on the construction work right? If all the bids came in that high then read point ‘A’ again and interview two new architects. Or give up the gold faucets you just had to have.
For you and those just starting, be careful on this blog, both contractors and architect obviously look for work here. Always interview more than one and bid the construction work out to at least three GCs. Whoever you hire, be sure to check references, and if possible visit their past projects.
12:05, who did your work?
Anything is possible….for a price.
The problem you are facing is quite common. You are asking a GC to sign a contract stipulating a guaranteed price for work that is nearly impossible to predict or guarantee. Yes. Plaster can be saved. And yes, in most cases, it should be. However, the walls will be destroyed by mechanical subcontractors who are not responsible for the plaster repairs. And once plaster begins to crumble and crack, the ripple wave of that can get out of hand very quickly. The condition of all of the substrate is difficut to determine. Often times the wood lathe beneath the plaster has completely deteriorated over time. A simple patch job can turn into replacing an entire ornate ceiling pretty quickly. Plus, most contractors are afraid to commit to “character”. They fear the client will not be satisfied until the old plaster walls look brand new.
Perhaps the solution here is to separate the plaster repair from the total contract. You could set up a seperate agreement based on “time and material” for the plaster repair and evaluate the work as it progresses. That way, you can make specific decisions for specific areas depending on the actual conditions (once the mechanical work is done). Perhaps there are areas where gyp board makes sense and you save that money. Perhaps there are areas where you are willing to pay to save your plaster details. Plus, you can keep track of the exact amount of work you are paying for (the contractor gives you an estimate per “task” and then submits weekly invoices). I doubt it will add up to anything close to $2.2 M.
Oh yeah….the mechanical work should not require demolition of entire walls. Most of the work can be done by making smallish holes. We just completely re-wired an entire 4-story brownstone (plus patched the plaster and painted) for about $40K.
Agree with all the posts above that plaster walls and ceilings can be saved (almost always — there are exceptions, of course). In my experience both plumbers and electricians can be real “butchers” when they cut holes in the walls for pipes and cables. Make sure that whoever you eventually hire as a GC understands that preservation of your plaster surfaces is a priority and that you will not accept unnecessary, careless damage. Sometimes it’s just a question of making that clear from the start so that your GC can’t say to you after the fact, “oh, these sloppy subs, they just hack away as they please…”
You’ll have a hard time finding an architect (unless it’s design/build) who will readily recommend a contractor – too much liability if something goes wrong.
A good plaster guy, should you need it (to restore original moldings, etc).
Guy Corriero
(917) 642-8887
(author) I am thankful for all of the comments. I will look up 6:52. I am assured now that I do not have to gut the walls to replace the mechanicals. Sounds like we need to keep digging to find the right contractor. The row house is on the UWS by the way. Any other recommendations with names would be great. Thanks
Google plaster washers. They are the metal disc like washers with holes in them that you can attach with a drywall screw to the lathe or the studs (if you are over a stud) and restore sagging plaster. The instructions come with them. It’s a very easy DIY job, and the plaster that is sagging and sounds hollow gets pulled up against the wall. You can use the pink bonding compound and then selfadhesive sheetrock tape over the washer. Joint compound or plaster of paris over that. All available at HD/ Lowes. I have done it in our house in numerous spots and it looks great.
For the OP, if they drywall, your old moldings and baseboard will also not fit accurately, and those will have to go as well. Don’t hire the GCs who tell you to demo old plaster walls.
We had a beautiful plaster ceiling repaired by a handyman. He put some sort of screws with big washers every few inches to reattach blown plaster to the studs, then a pink glue compound, then a cloth-like screen, and finally did a skim coat. We retained 100% of the detail, he did the work in a day, and it is beautiful. Sorry I don’t know how to reach him any longer, or the names of the exact materials, but he bought them all at Home Depot I think. I’d keep looking for people to do this for you. Old plaster is so tactile and wonderful.