Windsor Terrace Reno

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January 22, 2008

Kitchen Progress Heats Up

Finally, our cabinets have arrived. They took the full 4 months that was estimated when we put in our order. But at least they showed up on time.

Contractor made short work of putting them up. Here is the kitchen in its semi-finished form. Pretty much all the cabinets are in except for the end panel that will be installed to the left of the island once the dishwasher is in place. Its still missing appliances, fixtures, sink, trim molding, hardware, countertops and the large panel that covers up the back of the island but this gives a good idea of what its going to look like.

To give you a sense of the transformation, this is what it looked like a week or so before the cabinets got installed.

And this is what the space looked like during the demolition (this photo is taken from the opposite side of the room) after the wall that made this space two rooms was taken out.

After we ordered the cabinets but before they arrived, I was getting worried that maybe I had picked too yellow of a color or maybe the style wouldn't look right in there. You can look back to an earlier post about the kitchen design but this photo collage of my inspiration kitchens can give you a sense of what I was going for. Obviously, I had a lot of limitations that these kitchens don't have but Im really happy with how its coming together.

Now that we have the cabinets on their way, it was time to pick the counters. This decision has been much discussed since we started on the renovation. I fell in love with soapstone pretty early on but I know its a soft stone. I liked the idea of how it ages but its not for everyone. Most granite fabricators warn against it (but are also generally misinformed about soapstone properties so that sort of negates that "expert" opinion) Mr. Limestone wanted to stick with granite since we had experience with it. For a while I was going to give in and get black hones granite since it looks similar and is much harder. That was until I started reading internet reviews of black honed granite. After hearing about how it scratches, stains, and is impossible to keep looking good, I had enough of waffling. Soapstone it is.

We took a trip this weekend to pick out the stone. Very exciting. The owner was very patient and pulled out various slabs until we found the one that had the veining I wanted without being too busy. Its a Santa Rita soapstone called "Black Venata"

For those wondering why part of the stone is gray and part is black - soapstone is gray green stone that gets darker over time. You can speed up the natural darkening process by oiling the stone with bee's wax or mineral oil. You can also leave it in its natural state and let it get dark on its own. The oil is not a sealer and is only for decorative purposes - soapstone is non-porous, it does not need to be sealed. While its not porous - it is much softer than granite so it develops a "patina" of wear...kind of like what you might see with old marble.

Keeping fingers crossed that everything makes it to my kitchen in one piece.

I can't wait for this part of the project to be finished!

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Comments

I am jealous. What is that room next to your Kitchen? I have a similar layout in my home and would like to know what that is.

Posted by: guest at January 22, 2008 6:19 PM

Absolutely fantastic! I've been anxiously waiting for you to get to the kitchen and cannot wait to see it when it's finished. Every single thing you have chosen for your home is classically tasteful and simply fabulous. Your home has become my inspiration. You must be so excited!

Posted by: guest at January 22, 2008 8:20 PM

I have soapstone in a country home and love it. It's been no maintenance whatsoever. We've probably oiled it twice in 6 years. If you get a soapstone sink; like a farmers style, make sure its cut from one large block with rounded interior corners. The ones that are fabricated from pieces leaving swuare inside corners are hard to clean.

Your kitchen looks fantastic. You'll spend more time there than anywhere else in the house

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 22, 2008 8:34 PM

I just noticed as the pic was loading that you got your soapstone at M. Teixeira...that's where i got mine

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at January 22, 2008 8:57 PM

Thanks everyone.

Guest - Do you mean the room with the door? Thats a bathroom. It was originally that pink scary bathroom I posted about early on. We made it smaller to allow for a larger kitchen.

Good to know Dave. What type of soapstone do you have?

Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at January 23, 2008 8:46 AM

Looks great. I've also been thinking about knocking out the wall in my kitchen but was told that it was a load bearing wall and required serious support (we're on the top floor).

Curious if you used an arch or did the designs/work yourself.

Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 10:05 AM

The wall seperating the kithen and bathroom wasn't load bearing. It did have the waste stack inside it so it was a good time for us to move it since we replaced the stack.

If you mean the wall that seperated the dining room kitchen - we originally thought that wall was load bearing as well but based on the supports in the wall, it didn't seem to be the case. To be safe we had a header installed at the ceiling (its under the sheetrock that seperates the rooms in the the photo). We originally were going to have them do an arch but ultimately decided it would be a cleaner and more spacious look to have it squared off and take full advantage of the high ceilings. We did add some decorative corbels to soften it a bit.

We worked with an architect who specified the header.

Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at January 23, 2008 10:24 AM

Mrs Limestone,

I am very much enjoying your renovation. We are going through something similar and it is good to see what a place can look like!

Where did you get your countertop? I don't know where to start.

One more question: We are looking to have built in ceiling lights like you have. Do you think we could build them into tin ceiling, or would that look funny?

I appreciate your thoughts!

Posted by: hollander at January 23, 2008 10:50 AM

Thanks Hollander.

We are getting our stone from M Teixiera in NJ. (www.soapstones.com)

I think most people on this site would gasp with horror at the thought of putting holes in an original tin ceiling. I don't feel quite that reverant about details. I think that if something works for the space and looks good, its okay. You could put recessed lights in a tin ceiling but if you want to highlight the ceiling, you would want hanging lights that bounce off the ceiling. Recessed lights direct the light downward and don't cast any light on the ceiling. So if your ceilings are high, stick with hanging - if your ceilings are low, go with the recessed to give the room a more spacious look.

Hope that helps.

Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at January 23, 2008 12:11 PM

Thank you Mrs Limestone, that helps.
Unfortunately restoring the tin ceiling was not an option as we changed the dimensions of the space, so we are re-installing new ones. We are a little disappointed with how difficult it is in the end to keep original detail... plaster molding etc..
Thank you again!

Posted by: hollander at January 23, 2008 1:06 PM

Tin ceilings were never meant to be worshipped anyway - they were usually used to cover something ugly up. A new ceiling probably looks a lot better than the old one did anyway. Its frustrating if you can't keep something you wanted but sometimes its works out for the best. Either way - love a nice tin ceiling new or old.

I suppose thats one good thing about not having a lot of plaster details in my own house...there wasn't too much to restore either.

Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at January 23, 2008 1:25 PM

Where do you get those cabinents? I ask because I've finally found the cabinets my wife and I will use for our kitchen!! Yay!

Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 3:59 PM

Looks fabulous. Where did you get the kitchen cabinets? Thanks!

Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 4:41 PM

The cabinets are by Plain & Fancy. We purchased them through Park Slope Kitchen Gallery on Prospect Avenue. We worked with Keenia who was very patient as it took us FOREVER to finally get these decided on and purchased.

The only bad thing I can say (So far) is that the end panel that will go on the far side of the dishwasher came cut incorrectly. Luckily, we can still use the panel and it will be mostly hidden but its a little bit annoying to spend so much money and wait so long and still have even a minor problem.

Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at January 23, 2008 4:45 PM

Quick question.... I'm not sure what its called, but its that decorative, triangular shaped plaster in the corner at the end of the beam to the right that has your pendant lights hanging from. Is that original? If not, where'd you get it? did you have it restored? What's it called.

Thanks in advance!

Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 5:12 PM

Gorgeous!

Keenia is great. We used her and Park Slope Kitchen Gallery too. Keenia is like a therapist as much as a kitchen designer! She kept me sane. I'm sure you agree.

I looked at Plain & Fancy but we couldn't afford it. It was nearly a full 1/3 more in price than the Medallion line which is what we got. And we're really happy with our cabinets, they turned out beautifully. We also went very tall all the way to the ceiling like you did or nearly did. I put the odd serving pieces and stuff we don't use very often on the very top and it's perfect for that.

Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 5:34 PM

Guest512: They are called corbels...if you do a google search you'll find a bunch of retailers that sell these in various styles. The ones in the photo are not original (there was a wall there before). I posted a close up photo of when they got installed in the most recent post.

Guest534: I was very set on having inset cabinets and only custom cabinet companies like Plain&Fancy offered that style. If I had wanted an overlay style, I would have likely with the Medallion for this kitchen too. We went with the Medallion cabinets in the garden level. I wonder what styles you picked because the P&F were not 3x the price of the Medallion. It was about 2x the price even with the more expensive options like a painted finish, glass doors, pull out pantry, etc.. Maybe we just got lucky on the price for these? Or unlucky on the price of the Medallion?

Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at January 23, 2008 7:53 PM

Mrs. Limestone,

Great job on the gorgeous kitchen. Would you recommend the architect you used? We're desperately looking for someone affordable who understands the limestone/brownstone type

Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 11:06 PM

Whoopee! More great ideas to steal from Mrs. L. Keep 'em comin'.

Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 9:01 AM

Guest1106: You can email me at Bklimestoner@aol.com if you want more details about our architect. I will say that he seems overbooked right now so if you are tight on time, it may not be a fit.

Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at January 24, 2008 10:40 AM

Mrs. Limestone,

I'm green with Envy. The Corbels... Where'd you get them? How much did they cost?

Also, if you don't mind, what was the cost of your cabinets?

sorry to be so intrusive. I'm right at the point where I've got to make purchases and I don't want to over pay, or have false expectations.

Posted by: PutnamStoner at January 24, 2008 10:59 AM

Putnam - I got the corbels from www.architecturaldepot.com. The style name is Lucia and they were $48.75 each plus shipping.

We bought these cabinets along with the ones in the garden rental kitchen at the same time. We also negotiated the price down a bit. If you want to know specifics, email me at Bklimestoner@aol.com

Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at January 24, 2008 11:19 AM

Hi again Mrs. Limestone!

Oh no, our cabinets were not as discounted as that, relative to the Plain & Fancy. I wish! I was saying the Plain & Fancy estimate was 1/3 more than the estimate for the Medallion, meaning the Plain & Fancy cost 33% more than Medallion.

But it was a significant enough amount that I was able to buy a couple of our appliances with the extra 33%. I think we might have as many cabinets in our smallish galley kitchen as one puts in a big kitchen, because we put them on every possible section of wall and all the way to the ceiling all around. Our Medallion cabinets cost $18,000 not including installation.

Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 11:20 AM

Thanks for the info. I think its really hard to compare costs b/c so much goes into the total. The number of drawers, the upgrades, the finish, the customization, etc.. all factors in. So even if someone has the exact same size kitchen, we could end up with two totally different prices. I will say that considering P&F are completely custom made to our specifications and in a style not possible from a semi-stock line, I think they were reasonably priced compared to their competition. That said, I think cabinets of all types are outrageously overpriced. Its all relative I guess.

In our case we ended up saving money by:
a) having a fairly small kitchen with only one full wall
b) not having many drawers
c) going with the lower priced interior shelf option (it doesn't match the exterior but who cares?)
d) not having any glaze added onto the painted finish

Things that ended up costing us more were:
a) Going up to the ceiling with cabinets as opposed to having a soffit to fill space
b) doing a pull out pantry, pull out shelves at bottom and garbage pull out
c) getting a painted finish rather than a stained
d) choosing an inset style rather than overlay

Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at January 24, 2008 11:39 AM

Yes it's all about the different options that affect cost. That is a very helpful list for people, Mrs. Limestone.

We also have the pull-out pantry shelves. Also we have 3 big pot drawers on one side, and 4 regular drawers on the other side. We had the stained finish. I would have gone for painted which I'd prefer, but I guess I felt I had to match the stained wood in the dining room because it would be seen through the door. So with all these options the Plain & Fancy got too pricey for us. Our Medallion cabinets were part standard pieces and part custom, we had to have both. Like one example, I designed a custom large slotted piece above the fridge to slide in cutting boards and serving trays. Which is so handy and I love it. Also I had to request a custom bookshelf section for cookbooks. I'd think they'd have a standard bookshelf piece available, but they didn't. Isn't that funny?

Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 2:21 PM

Just a big shout out to Mrs Limestone and all the posters on this thread: thanks for getting back to what enticed many of us to come to this site in the first place. That is, the loving restoration of old townhouses. Thanks for being so generous with the shared information and thanks for keeping it friendly and civil. There are times when the comments on the main page (especially the trashing that occurs on House of the Day) make me vow never to visit again. Then I find something interesting and inspiring like this and I'm glad I bothered.

Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 7:11 PM