Windsor Terrace Reno

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October 3, 2007

Happy to see me or central air?

Get your minds out of the gutter, its central air (and heat!). These octopus like ducting is all over the house right now. As promised by our HVAC guy, the ducting has been squeezed through existing walls without damaging any detail. We did have to drop the ceiling in a bathroom (which was originally 10 feet high so I wasn’t too upset about that) and we may have to add a small soffit above a hallway door (which I’m really not happy about) but that seems to be the extent of the ugliness that this system will inflict. On the plus side, all the radiators will be removed. This is particularly good for our small rooms that could really use the extra floor space by the window that was once occupied by a radiator.

Mr. Limestone can go into the details of what kind of system we have as he is well versed in the specifications. But to sum up we will have two air handlers - one on the roof that cools the top and parlor floor and one in the basement mechanical room that cools the garden and basement floor. The heating will go through the ducts as well but the source of the heat will be a boiler/hydronic coils to avoid the dry heat issue of forced hot air. We will be able to control the temp on each floor with the help of motorized vents operating on thermostats.

Neither of us has ever lived in a centrally heated/cooled house so we are pretty excited about the idea of being cool in summer without lugging leaky window units all over the place. I’m sure there are some things we'll miss about radiators (like putting wet shoes on them to dry after a snowstorm) but for now, I’m not going to just think about the good things.

The ducting is just about done now but the "package" delivery (this particular specialty is especially masculine!), electrical and plumbing connections are still in the future.

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Comments

About how much does central air cost to install in 25x55 home, first floor, basement access?

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 3:33 PM

It would really depend on a lot of factors. I dont think our central air installation would be a good indicator as we are doing an entire house with different dimensions as well as heat. We're also doing it in the middle of a big reno project so we aren't paying a fortune to open up/close the walls since that was already factored into the renovation for other renovations.

Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at October 3, 2007 4:10 PM

Mr. & Mrs. Limestone, I'm planning on doing exactly what you all are doing, for my entire 4 story town house and It will also be a complete renovation, please give me some idea of what this system cost and also who is your HVAC contractor. Would you recommend this company also? Thanks.

Posted by: guest at October 3, 2007 8:30 PM

I did this, but it was 3 zones (ie 3 air handlers)... it cost approx 18k with Palone Bros, and it would of been approx 21k if I had wanted heat as well.
I now have a service contract with AllHVAC (allhvac.com), and they seem very knowledgeable, so I would check them out too.
To Mrs. Limestone: make sure to test the system as soon as is reasonably possible, so you are not doing any heavy damage in case of any problems.

Posted by: oe at October 3, 2007 8:38 PM

Is this a Spacepak or Unico system or some other brand. Trying to decide between the systems myself?

I heard that although the mini ducts are small the return (no idea really what that is) can be huge.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 5:25 AM

I would love to know more details too, like size of units, pricing etc. Our house is smaller than yours, 20 x 38; 2.5 floors. We bought a furnace 2 years ago when we bought the brownstone, it has forced air heating. I don't think there is enough ducting for AC though. We’d probably want AC and maybe some heat in the window bays. Do all of your outlets have both AC and heat? Also, is your system Space Pak? On another note have you had insulation put in? Our house has lots of nice woodwork around the windows in the bay front; we found out that there was nothing in between the woodwork and the outside bricks.. this let in tons of cold air, so this summer we had Air Krete put it. Your house looks similar to ours, just wondering if you have done anything with insulation.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 8:52 AM

We are not using a small ducting system like spacepak or unico - larger ducts are being put into the walls but the ducts are flexible. All outlets will have A/C and heat.

We are using Palone Brothers. The job is not complete yet so its not possible to give a review on how happy we are using them. They have taken a little longer than expected but there is so much other work going on that we're not in a rush anyway. I'll give a full review after they are finished and we've determined the system works as promised.

The cost is $29K not including the demo, wall repair, plumbing & electrical connections, insulation or boiler.

We'll definitely test it out as soon as possible but that won't be for quite a while. Its a little nerve wracking b/c we wont be able to test it all out fully until all the walls are closed up and we're moved in but I guess thats how it goes with anything like this.

In terms of insulation we have added more insulation to the roof when it was redone, insulation will be added to the cockloft, new windows will be installed as well as insulation added around them.

Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at October 4, 2007 9:25 AM

Wow, 29k is a lot! Currently we have 3 window AC units and they keep the house very cool; the up stairs hall is kind of warm though. The main reason we are considering central is because of the warm spots, plus having to deal with having the units taken to the basement and then installed again in the spring; but for 29k I might just deal with it  if you want more info on insulation let me know; we also did the ceiling, they used Insulafe4 for that, 12 or 18 inches of it I believe.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 11:20 AM

Thanks Mrs. Limestone!

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 1:53 PM

I know, 11:20am, same here. Central AC would be lovely, but it's so much money to cool a house for 3 or 4 months of the year. We've already maxed what we'd put into our house right now per the market and the values in our neighborhood. As for now, we don't get warm spots with our window AC's. They perform really well. I especially like being able to turn one window AC up extra cool, and in the very next room if I want, have it less cool per our comfort levels. I did grow up with Central air, and one thing I've always hated about Central AC is having to struggle with the temps. It's always too cold or too warm from room to room. All these options have their upsides and downsides.

Posted by: guest at October 4, 2007 1:54 PM

No question its a lot of money but Ive found thats true of just about everything. Ive yet to come across something renovation related and think "wow, what a bargain!"

Window A/C was definitely an option but since we were going to have to replace the heating system anyway, this made a lot of sense for us.

Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at October 4, 2007 3:50 PM

Thanks for sharing--we are trying to figure out what to do about cooling as well. Nothing seems to be easy or affordable but I know its a decision we will need to make sooner rather than later. How did you make the decision? Are there any helpful websites you looked at?
Any help would be much appreciated.

Posted by: HomeSweetstuy at October 5, 2007 10:46 AM

I dont have any helpful websites for you. Putting in central air into an old home is a lot less common than the surburban central air options.

Until we spoke to the local HVAC contractors, I just assumed we'd have to use a small ducting system like Unico. The cost of that would have been considerably higher and didn't have an appealing heat option so it wasn't looking likely.

When we learned we could use a more traditional central system for a cost that was within reason, it was appealing to us.

Who knows if we have made the right decision or not? Time will tell I guess.

Also note that if we were not ripping open the walls for plumbing/electrical/other upgrades anyway, we would have not been too likely to go this route. This one photo doesn't really show you the extent of the mess this type of installation creates. We took advantage of the fact we were doing the other work anyway to put this in when we could. Based on your blog posts, it doesn't seem like you are doing that kind of an upheaval so it may not be a good fit for you.

Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at October 5, 2007 11:10 AM