Windsor Terrace Reno
« So it begins... The good with the bad.... »
January 21, 2007
The grand tour...
Now that I've established our house is in dire need of a major renovation, here is the grand tour.
The house: A limestone built somewhere in the early century. We think 1910 but can't be sure. We're not really sure the "style" since it seems to have a little bit of a few different listings in the row house guide. Maybe once you see the photos, someone might have an idea?
The owners: Mr. & Mrs. Limestone (an homage to the Mr. B of course). We're Brooklyn 'lifers' and are glad Brooklyn's been getting the attention its so long deserved. Yes, we lived here when our Manhattanite friends would moan about coming to Brooklyn. Of course, now they all live here and wish they had bought when we were telling them that Brooklyn wasn't the warzone and/or mafia playground they imagined.
The plan: Total renovation of the kitchens and baths. Add a master "suite" with bathroom and closets. Create a kitchen/dining room on the parlor floor. Restore the details that can be saved like the doors, floors, etc.. Replace what can't be saved with house appropriate choices. Get it warm in the winter and cool in the summer. Toilets that flush. Windows that open and close. Ceilings that don't leak. You know, the usual.
Where we are: Just closed. Working with an architect that thinks we're only 95% insane for doing this. Looking for people to do the work at a price that won't have us eating cat food for dinner for the next 20 years.
And without further ado...the grand photo tour. Chapter 1: Vestibule and hall.
Please enjoy.
More to come.
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Comments
Very nice neo-Renaissance design. Looks very similar to my house (circa 1909). Could be the same architect that did yours.
Posted by: tom at January 25, 2007 11:25 AM
Would that be canned cat food or dry? Just checking how far you thought that through.
Posted by: grim at January 25, 2007 11:30 AM
It's a beautiful house! At the end of the day you will be very happy, albeit poor, campers! Bon Chance!
Posted by: dt at January 25, 2007 11:38 AM
It's a beautiful house! At the end of the day you will be very happy, albeit poor, campers! Your details are very much like ours. Bob Marvin should pipe in soon with a thourough education on the style for us both!
Posted by: dt at January 25, 2007 11:39 AM
sorry for my spelling of thorough.
Posted by: dt at January 25, 2007 11:41 AM
I raise my glass to you! I can't tell you how satisfying it was to gut the disgusting bathrooms in our Crown Heights brownstone.
Posted by: Hal at January 25, 2007 11:54 AM
You say "eating cat food" like it's a bad thing.
Good luck--lots of fun to be had--WT is a fantastic neighborhood! (My daughter goes to Holy Name School, and even though we're Flatbushies, and the nabe is full of Irish old-timers, we've been welcomed warmly...)
Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at January 25, 2007 12:15 PM
Lovely house, lovely details. Brings back lots of memories. Best of luck.
Posted by: Anon on Greene at January 25, 2007 1:07 PM
Looks like a beaut -- congrats! I love this nabe and always look forward to walking or bike riding across the park from our digs in Prospect Heights to visit pals on Fuller Place.
You've obviously got some fabulous woodwork on the parlor floor. Don't hate me for saying this but, if you possibly can, strip it as soon as you can -- not later when your reno is finished, which is what we did. It's slow, dirty work but we are still doing it 6 years after buying our house and doing the initial reno. I hate the disruption, dust and damage (to adjacent painted surfaces etc) it causes. It would have gone much faster if we had paid to have it done during the heavy construction phase.
Posted by: NeoGrec at January 25, 2007 1:19 PM
this house is amazing! Please, mr. and mrs. limestone, take your time. Do not remove original details.
Do one room at a time if need be. It might take you ten years but it will be worth it. Don't move kitchens and baths - expensive to move the plumbing for that, plus you'll ruin the original floorplan, which probably rocks. See if you can live with the house as it is before you make floorplan changes that you might regret...
Do not strip ANYTHING until you get an expert woodworker/restoration expert's recommendation. Often the old patina looks much better than sanding floors or removing old paint from trim. perhaps you'll need to do some removal, but get several expert's opinions first.
make sure the roof is tight and that there is no moisture in the basement. if there are problems with either, fix those items first (french drains can be installed in the basement) it will be a waste of time and money if the roof or foundation has problems.
make sure the structure is sound. get several opinions on that...replace the electrical (if necessary) and then the rough plumbing (if necessary). Teach yoursleves plaster repair and drywall installation. Learn how to skim coat.
why do you need an architect? I guess for a new kitchen and/or baths it could be helpful, but this house is a stunner - don't let ANYONE do anything stupid to it, including you!
Have fun! I'm envious!
Posted by: Anonymous at January 25, 2007 2:45 PM
What a gorgeous house--thanks for saving it! And for writing it up with wit and courage! And while I like a pink 50s bathroom every now and then, I can understand why yours won't be part of the restoration effort, here. Would you mind if I ask a couple of personal questions? What did you pay for the place, why are you having to wait months to close, and will you be restoring to single-family or (as your plan for a parlor-level kitchen suggests) will you be creating a rental unit on the garden level? I have to second the great advice from Anon 2:45--if you need a rental, I understand the impulse to put the kitchen on the parlor level. But I have to say, I have rarely (actually never) been in a rowhouse where this didn't cause flow problems.
Posted by: bob999 at January 25, 2007 3:11 PM
Yeah, lifers! Good luck. I'll look for you when it gets warmer and I start biking and running through there.
Posted by: greenwood slope at January 25, 2007 3:24 PM
Haven't found the architect yet, but houses were all built by William Calder. If you're interested, I have a neglected hobby site, windsorterracebrooklyn.com, that includes a history of the nabe. Don't be surprised if your cellar is damp--it is called Windsor Terrace, and that slope is killer for drainage. Solutions do exist, though. Just know that you're not alone....Good luck!
Posted by: Anonymous at January 25, 2007 10:18 PM
Haven't found the architect yet, but houses were all built by William Calder. If you're interested, I have a neglected hobby site, windsorterracebrooklyn.com, that includes a history of the nabe. Don't be surprised if your cellar is damp--it is called Windsor Terrace, and that slope is killer for drainage. Solutions do exist, though. Just know that you're not alone....Good luck!
Posted by: Anonymous at January 25, 2007 10:19 PM
Great house. I love th green.
We are doing a similar reno in CG.
I ave a couple or reliable well priced references if yo need them.
Best of luck,
chop
Posted by: chopper at January 25, 2007 11:33 PM
Beautiful place, and the layout and details are pure classics. There is a fully restored building near me that has remarkably similar interiors (especially that front hallway!)- I'd be happy to email some photos of the place, if you wish to have more reference material.
Good luck to you, and keep your spirits up- I'm in the third year of renovating my late 1800's Victorian, and as hard as it's been the rewards are worth it!
Posted by: Anonymous at January 26, 2007 9:54 AM
Beautiful place, and the layout and details are pure classics. There is a fully restored building near me that has remarkably similar interiors (especially that front hallway!)- I'd be happy to email some photos of the place, if you wish to have more reference material.
Good luck to you, and keep your spirits up- I'm in the third year of renovating my late 1800's Victorian, and as hard as it's been the rewards are worth it!
Posted by: Anonymous at January 26, 2007 9:54 AM
Beautiful place, and the layout and details are pure classics. There is a fully restored building near me that has remarkably similar interiors (especially that front hallway!)- I'd be happy to email some photos of the place, if you wish to have more reference material.
Good luck to you, and keep your spirits up- I'm in the third year of renovating my late 1800's Victorian, and as hard as it's been the rewards are worth it!
Posted by: Anonymous at January 26, 2007 9:55 AM
Thanks for the comments everyone.
Some answers/responses:
- I'd love to see photos of any suggestions you may have. Please email us at bklimestoner@aol.com
-not sure what style the house was modeled after. I get the sense its a bit of a mish mash as there seems to be touches of different styles mixed throughout the house. Assuming these homes were built for the middle class, it seems unlikely that a particular style was strictly adhered to anyway but I can't be sure. I'd love to hear more about it if anyone has a strong opinion.
- At this rate, it will be a very dry, cheap catfood. The kind you buy in 50lb bags at Costco. Keeping fingers crossed that our construction bids come in "cheap" so we can upgrade to Fancy Feast. At least our cat will be happy with that.
- Hi Brenda..thanks for stopping by. Ive been lurking on your blog for quite a while now :) I went to Holy Name for a short while many years ago. Its a really sweet little school.
- While we would love to strip all the woodwork now, not sure if its in the budget. Things like running water and heat take precendence. Ill post soon about my "strip off" and what I plan to do with the time I have. Im hoping I can do some myself and save some on the professional stripping.
- As much as we'd love to dip the whole house in bronze and call it a day...this isnt going to be a shrine. We will actually be living here when all said and done. That requires some changes to be made to the kitchens and baths. We don't plan on making too many changes to the floorplan but where it makes sense for us, we will. One example includes moving the top floor rental to the garden floor. Family will occupy the entire house but we do want to have some privacy as well as leaving the option for renting open at some later date...so the kitchen down there gets a makeover, a new kitchen will be placed on parlor floor and bedrooms will be at top.
-"Lucky" for us, most of the things that are changing dramatically are in such terrible shape that there isnt much lost in renovating. An example would be the kitchen in the garden floor that is a complete and total nightmare. If its original, it has absolutely no charm whatsoever so we have no problem saying goodbye to it. Ditto for the pink bathroom (not original) that we will redo with something a bit more period appropriate.
- The new plumbing, electrical, bathrooms, kitchens, etc.. all require an architects help. This isnt just polishing up an old house...the house has been severely neglected so a lot of what would be salvageable in an average old home must be replaced in ours.
- Not sure why you think there would be "flow" problems with a parlor floor kitchen. Can you elaborate? There is an existing kitchen on the top floor rental and that seemed to work for about 100 years. I dont see what moving it one floor down will do. But maybe Im missing something critical.
- www.windsorterracebrooklyn.com is a great site and I often check for updates. Thanks for the architect info, i'll definitely be doing some digging on him.
Wow - that has to be longest comment ever. Sorry, I tend to go on a bit.
Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at January 26, 2007 11:41 AM
Congrats! It looks like a Street Limestone. Very beautiful. My friend's family is selling theirs and they have the same bathroom tiles as you.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 2, 2007 3:48 PM
Hi This is to Mrs Limestone
Hope this goes through to you.Love your Blog.
I'm the programmer for Anatomy of Brownstone
It's a repeating event that presents experts and other enthusists who dicuss Brownstone renovation.
Would love to have you speak at our next event.
Please contact me offline:
debra@408group.com
dsalomon@citytech.cuny.edu
917 501 4263
Posted by: Debra Salomon at March 9, 2007 1:46 PM
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