South Stuy Blog

« Small Space, Big Work

May 1, 2008

What's black and white with nickel finishes?

The last rental's bathroom!

As noted in my last post, we brought in a hired hand to help us out with the 3rd floor rear bathroom and......drumroll please...... he actually showed up, did the work and did it well.

Here are some pics to show the progression.

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We decided to keep as much of the original subway tile as we could. We added the black border in order to blend the old subway tile with the new subway tile--which gave us the color scheme and design theme for the room.

We spent more on this bathroom than the others, and not just because me and T are going to be the first tenants. (We are movin' on up into it to live like human people while work is being done on the duplex.) The main reason we spent more on this bathroom than on the two other rentals is because even though it's the smallest of all the rentals and though its 1930s subway tile walls were in better shape than the others, the rest of the space was in the worst shape of all three. So money had to be spent since it was a complete overhaul. However, since we're living there for the next 6-9 months, we did spend a bit more on materials and fixtures than we might otherwise have. That said--we did save some money by buying some of the white subway tile (200+ tiles for $45) and the sink ($10) at BuildItGreen in Queens. We also saved money on the light fixture (about $20, I think), the faucet (about $20), and the shower doors (a Kohler "brand," $300) by hunting for bargains at Lowes and Home Depot--and using those coupons they keep sending us in the mail since we began dumping piles of money into their registers last year. However, we did splurge on the shower fixture.

After spending a day in a zipcar going all over Brooklyn to tile stores and being told that black subway tile is "rare" at the few places that even carried it--meaning it's both expensive and has to be special ordered--"it's just black subway tile, like the white stuff, but black," T kept saying in growing disbelief and frustration--we found the black subway tile at our very own Home Depot a few blocks away in Bed Stuy (at which you cannot find, strangely, plain white and black 12 x 12-inch tile).

The black and white hex tile was found at Bella on the LES--a great no-attitude spot--much unlike the spots we went to in Bkln. The medicine cabinet and the wall-mounted cabinet are from Ikea. Actually the "wall-mounted" cabinet,is a vanity for the sink that was supposed to go there, which was measured and picked out by our first contractor (who we parted company with many moons ago now--a lifetime, it seems). It turned out to be way too large for the space (thanks for the great measuring work and advice, guys), so we re-purposed it to make up for the storage space lost by having a wall-mounted sink (although I still have the Ikea sink and faucet and am dreading the fight when I try to return them a year after purchasing).

The medicine cabinet and storage cabinet are not just hung on the wall, but are sunk into the wall. We built a new wall using 2 x 3s to frame it in order to hide the previously exposed pipes ( we did not want to go through all the trouble of tearing out the old tile and plaster). We simply cleaned up the piping, threw up new wall over it all, mounted the cabinets within the frame, then drywalled.

I say "we" but it was almost entirely our guy Henry. Aside from picking all the materials out and T assisting where needed and doing the clean-up so the expensive contractor wasn't wasting time and money sweeping and picking up trash, our only other physical contributions to this little room entailed stripping the window frame and repainting it, which of course also meant pulling out all the crappy old caulk that was smeared on, globbed over, oozed in, and hardened all over the place, as well as doing some minor wood repairs on the frame itself.

T also had to rehang the door so that it opens out rather than in, so you can actually get into the bathroom AND also close the door. He was pretty hesitant to do it after the fiasco of rehanging his first door in one of the other rentals, which involved mounting it and taking it down at least 5 times. I participated by ...well..nagging T to hang the door, helping with repairs of the frame and by boiling and stripping the door hardware.

Once everything was installed, we were both pretty struck by the differences in craftmanship and material quality between the old subway tile and the new. The old tiles were a full half-inch thick and were mudded into the wall with big dollops of cement. They barely showed a grout line and the wall itself was a perfectly flat plane. While our guy did a great job at a really faircprice, and though he himself is conscientious and cares about the quality of the materials and his own work, it just wasn't the same. The difference is in the quality and price of materials these days and in the old-school know-how of the contractors who do the work nowadays. Of course, if you have the time and money, you can get anything and have the work look like a Renaissance cathedral, but for those of us at this price point, it's always interesting seeing the differences between then and now.

I know some will say that we should have just torn all the walls out and retiled with new half-inch tile and new plaster walls (as did 3 of the 4 contractors who gave us estimates), but we aren't restoring, we're renovating, and while we're very mindful of the original work and details, we aren't out to replicate everything to bring back the original beauty of the house. (And besides, this work isn't "original" anyway, it's from the first major renovation of the house, done about 40 yrs after it was built.) We're keeping what we can, and doing what we have to with the rest. I know it would look sleeker with conforming subway tiles but I like the idea of two eras coming together in this little bathroom and even like the aesthetic. So I'm glad we did it our way--because that approach is more in line not with just our wallets, but with who we are.


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Comments

wow. looks like shit

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:22 PM

hater's gotta hate

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 3:01 PM

Congratulations -- it is a big accomplishment. Thanks for filling us in on your process. Enjoy, you deserve it.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 9:13 PM

Wow,you two are really wacked out.First you post crappy wood floors and now this...pleaseeee get help

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 9:16 PM

Looking great...the black looks really sharp against the white. Gives it a little bit of a modern edge. Very nice.

Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at May 2, 2008 10:30 AM

Dudes,

You are confusing blogs....South Stuy is not Bed Stuy....Get your blogs straight.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 11:54 AM

psst... did u hear the news? blacks live in bed stuy

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:03 PM

That is a unnecessary racist comment 2:03.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:55 PM

I think it looks nice, classic with a twist. I also really appreciate reading about the practical considerations that went into your decisions.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:38 PM

It looks ok, but why not rip out the tile and plaster walls you wanted to replace? Your bathroom would be larger and if the original studs were exposed it would be much easier to create perfectly flat planes for new sheetrock, durock and tiling, not to mention easier to deal with plumbing and electrical.

You've probably lost 4 inches all the way around the room by not demoing out the old wall, and that will also make your fixtures appear larger and more cramped than they would be otherwise.

I also don't like the fact that the medicine cabinet is embedded int the wall. Will be difficult to replace in the future...

Don't mean to be critical - but I would not recommend doing what you did here in any of your other rooms. 75% of your contractors were right.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:57 PM

4:57 Thank for the input-we would have loved to have ripped out the wall and plaster and start over (and most importantly reclaim that space) but we simply could not afford it (note--we did not lay new wall all the way around).

Overall-We think it is pretty cool for a rental apartment and a huge improvement over what was there before--in fact our 2 other tenants LOVE it and have asked for the same treatment.

Posted by: HomeSweetstuy at May 2, 2008 5:40 PM

Congratulations HomeSweetstuy, looks really good.

Love reading about your process too.

Posted by: Nokilissa at May 3, 2008 10:01 AM

what's black and white and really, really ugly? i'd rather have "bath fitter" in my house. i agree with 4:57, it would have made more sense to demo the old tile and walls. if you did the demo yourselves it would have taken one day, alot of dust, and several bags of demo that could've been dribbled out with the rest of your trash. the cost of materials would not have been that much more even with the cost of tile. i'm just wondering why you did what you did, considering that it was never going to look anywhere near close to the original subway tile. your black tile choice does not really help to blend it in either. it actually makes the bathroom look smaller. maybe that's why you had a hard time finding black subway tile-it's ugly.
that said, please don't use the excuse of having no money for bad decisions. peter and g from the bed stuy blog are doing everything themselves and are on a budget. if you don't like hearing truthful feedback, then don't have a blog. if you want constant validation of what a great job you're doing, please call your parents. it's obvious they never gave you negative criticism or conversely, only criticized you.
god bless your new handyman, because it must be hell to deal with people like you. lastly, please don't try to take back that sink cabinet you purchased over a year ago. ikea is not a mom and pops store, but it's still really tacky of you to even consider it.

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 5:15 PM

Wow, 5:15, you're quite the ass. I think the design has merit, taste and is quite smart looking. They made personal choices that they are happy with, in context with their lives and they are good enough to share the process with us. Go back to your world where you are god and leave the rest to us humans,

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 8:32 PM

"some will say that we should have just torn all the walls out and retiled with new half-inch tile and new plaster walls [...] but we aren't restoring, we're renovating"

As other pointed out, the issue is not restoring vs. renovating, it is that you lost a significant amount of space in a small bathroom! That's why it was a mistake not to remove the old wall(s). And I don't see how that would have been significantly more expensive.

Posted by: guest at May 5, 2008 11:22 AM

Congrats! This will be a rockin' rental. I don't think you lost a whole lotta space, and you maintained a little bit of history.

I enjoy your posts because they're very real and price-conscious. I look forward to the next.

Posted by: tinarina at May 7, 2008 9:46 PM

Hi all, it's T.

I'd like to say something about the bemoaned "loss of space" some folks are harping on.

The bathroom has X width and X depth. We took 4 inches from the depth by putting up the new wall, on which the sink is mounted and against which the toilet is placed. We did that for multiple reasons, the main ones were 1) cost--estimates for tearing everything out and starting fresh from the studs were between $2K and $4K higher than what we ended up doing, and what we did still cost thousands; 2) a desire to get the pipes in the walls instead of mounted to the walls without going down to the studs; 3) we didn't want to build a custom shower base and stall and so needed the depth of the bathroom to conform to the dimensions of stuff we could buy at a plumbing supply store and Home Depot, so that meant the depth needed to be 48-inches. Because we robbed from the depth, we lost no really usable space, unless you have Shaq-sized feet that won't fit in the bathroom when standing at the sink, the workable dimensions in terms of fitting in a shower, sink, and toilet against that wall were in no way altered. And since the bathroom (and this apt in general) is quite small (the entire space, though a real one-bedroom apt, is only about 400 sq-ft), it's not like we could've placed those things in another configuration, putting the toilet against one wall, the sink against another, etc. So unless we were going to tear everything down to studs, we weren't going to gain any more useable room. And even if we did tear things down to the studs, we'd only be regaining a couple inches of width, since the other wall is an exterior wall and almost no space would've been reclaimed. Finally, tearing everything down to the studs would've required a custom-sized bath/shower, which would've cost much more to do, and so we hit the budget issue once again. And in any event, none of this would've brought in more rent for the space.

I'm happy to receive criticism and advice, but honestly, I can do without the freshman-level bullshit psychoanalysis some people are throwing around as if they're rocket-scientist renovators with an additional PhD in pyschology. Thanks to everyone--the good and the bad--for reading.

Posted by: HomeSweetstuy at May 11, 2008 2:50 PM

To T- I think it is great that people doing these reno blogs are brave enough to weather these nutso responses. It looks great and I too am really glad you are concerned about the bucks. I lived with a tiny tiny (only) bathroom for years with my two kids. There is only so much re arranging you can do. I just ripped it up and put in a shower room type situation. That is the way to get space when you are just doing it for one person.
Keep writing it's a fascinating process.

Posted by: guest at May 13, 2008 4:33 AM

It looks fine, i agree that you should have torn down the existing tiles to get that extra space. I will post pics of my bathroom renovation this week. I used ACR General Contracting, for an insured company they gave me a pretty descent price and the workmanship was excellent, they also take care of any emergency calls I've had. The owners name is AL & he can be reached at (917) 573-3304.

Posted by: caseycrespo at May 13, 2008 8:14 AM

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