South Slope Reno

« New Year's kitchen edition Getting to the basement »

February 20, 2009

The Stair Issue

The bad news is that things have come to a screeching halt because my GC had to go into the hospital for a new heart valve and a couple of stents, and the day before he fell off a ladder (not here) and shattered his kneecap.

The good news is that we are so close to the end that we are living comfortably, with only the stairs having serious issues. And we need railings shortly thereafter. Also, we were able to arrange a final inspection from our PE, who will sign off everything subject to stairs and railings being finished.

THAT means we were able to get rid of the second floor kitchen, thank goodness, and turn it into my office. For the last few months, my computer stuff has been hooked up in the unheated basement, gathering tons of dust to boot. I’ve already had to replace two case fans and a WD Raptor HD, all failing, I presume, because of dust.

I took the computer over to Park Slope Computers, on 19th and Prospect, and they did a great job cleaning it out, before I moved it up. Cleaning out my printers and scanners and so on was quite a task also.

The upstairs temporary kitchen is here. Hard to believe we actually ate and cooked in here for a few months!
http://www.pbase.com/dentontay/image/109380116

But we are leaving the plumbing as is, after capping everything off. This gives us or future occupants the option to turn this back into a 2-family easily enough. We were able to shut off Keyspan service as well, that knocks $20 a month off the overhead.
http://www.pbase.com/dentontay/image/109380115

Here’s the room almost finished. Yeah, my wife has to stick a plant everywhere, even if it’s mostly dead!
http://www.pbase.com/dentontay/image/109380107

And then that leaves my good friend Brian Ackerman at Brooklyn Kitchens aka Garfield Kitchens. He did manage, almost on time, to take care of everything needed in the kitchen. There were a set of spice drawers that had to be made over–thrice. The third time the grain was running in the wrong direction, but at this point, we’ll just pretend we liked the contrast. However, we still have no shower doors! That’s twenty-three weeks and counting!

I gave him an ultimatum on a Monday that if he didn’t get them by Friday I wanted my money back. He asked for the next Wednesday, which I gave him. I didn’t call him and he didn’t call me until late Wednesday, when he called me practically in tears begging for more time because he just lost 80k due to a cabinet supplier that just went under with his deposits. Allegedly. Against my better judgement, I gave him until 3/3 provided he gave me a post-dated check to be deposited on that date if there are no doors. For your amusement...
http://www.pbase.com/dentontay/image/109380105

Back to the big hold-up, the stairs. We’ve been through two sets already and it looks like we’re cruising for a third. We wanted a set of oak open stairs. We liked the first set when it arrived.
http://www.pbase.com/dentontay/image/109380109

There were a few things we didn’t really notice at first. But when we did... First is that the stairs seem to be made by a Chinese robot. They were routed out and wedged from the back. This would have been fine if they were to be covered underneath, but they’re not!
http://www.pbase.com/dentontay/image/109380108

Then there was some more sloppy stuff, like magic marker here and there, and glued labels, all of which would have been a bear to sand off. It was the GC who opened his mouth first, and told us he wouldn’t be able to sleep at night if he left us with the stairs. So he had a pow-wow with the stair guy, who agreed to replace them. This time I sketched out in Corel Draw exactly the way I thought the stairs should be.

When we started the job, the GC offered to replace the rickety stairs to the basement for $700, new pine. I told him we’d deal with the basement after the main work was done. It struck me that these oak stairs would be an upgrade to new pine, so we offered to pay the $700 for the oak stairs installed to the basement. This way everyone got a little something. The stair guy probably breaks even, the GC makes a few bucks, and we get better stairs to the basement. In fact they have been installed and we’re in the process of varnishing them now.
http://www.pbase.com/dentontay/image/109380113
http://www.pbase.com/dentontay/image/109380114

The new proper oak stairs were delivered. By this time the GC was in the hospital. These are gorgeous, massive stairs. I had to help the three guys get them into place.
http://www.pbase.com/dentontay/image/109380112

One little problem, however. They’re too short.
http://www.pbase.com/dentontay/image/109380110
http://www.pbase.com/dentontay/image/109380111

The stair guy came over and suggested some smooth ways to fix them. I told him I can’t agree with anything unless the GC approved. The GC is finally out, came over last night, and we will have to have another meeting with the stair guy. That should be interesting.

Trackback Pings

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.brownstoner.com/mte/mt-tb.cgi/8524

Comments

They'll perfectly ok if completely supported. All it would takes is a couple of on-edge 2x8 under that overhang, bolted or lag-bolted to the platform. Lots of over-engineering in stairs (for the good).

Posted by: cmu at February 27, 2009 3:32 PM

Hi Denton, I really appreciate your willingness to share your reno with us. It takes courage and you can be rightfully proud of your accomplishments in creating a home.

Do you remember recently there was a question in the forum where someone asked whether to hire a gc directly or if an architect is worth it? You replied that you had gone without, but it had it's challenges...I think the stairs are a perfect example of that. An architect would have figured out the proportions (at least ours did when we put in a new staircase) and a lot of hassle would have been saved. I only say this because it is hard for people that have not used an architect to appreciate the value they bring to a project.

Posted by: Schultz at February 27, 2009 5:22 PM

Hi Schultz:

Thanks for commenting, but I didn't _exactly_ say that have no plans! We do have plans, drawn up by an architect, with the stairs.

I think what I did say, is that while we had an architect do the basic plans, we did not have him go deeply into the finishes and the hand-holding. If we did, I agree totally with you, he would have spec'd out the stairs, the wood, the construction, and so on, and we would not have gone thru a couple of sets!

I guess I'm agreeing with you after all... in this case the stairs would have been right on the first try with an architect on the case. OTOH we'd be paying the architect for his services. We have a high tolerance for hassle if we can save some money. At the same time, if you don't have that tolerance, you better get yourself a good one.

I suppose this is one of the choices we make. I appreciate your comments.

Thanks also, cmu. That's basically what the stair guy wants to do, we have a meeting tom'w.

Posted by: denton at February 27, 2009 5:45 PM

Thanks Denton, you are very kind for agreeing. I realize my comments were a bit nudgy, but they weren't really intended to make a point with you as much as others that are a bit more naive about the process.

Posted by: Schultz at February 27, 2009 7:02 PM

Denton

I echo the thanks for generously sharing your experience. I've seen other neighbors replace enclosed stairwells to their basements with similar open stairways.

And while I like the design, it has raised two questions:

Doesn't this open stairwell design allow noise to travel from one level to another more easily? (Friends have such an open stairwell to their basement and I wonder how they enjoy quiet in their upper level living room when kids are watching videos in the lower level?)

And is such open stairwell design allowed by code in NYC, as it would seem to eliminate any fireblock provided by an enclosed stairway with a door at the top or bottom?

Hope this doesn't sound like I'm second guessing choices you've made with a really nice project. I'm just wondering if these considerations were addressed with your GC?

Posted by: Roebling at February 27, 2009 10:28 PM

Hi Roebling:

Thanks for commenting. Obviously you'd be correct about the noise, but it's just the two of us, our kids are grown and gone. I suppose if the house was sold it wouldn't be a big deal to 'rock under the stairs.

Makes sense what you say about the code, but an architect designed it, a PE signed off on it, and neither the GC nor the stair guy said we couldn't. Plus your friend has one :-)

Also have seen them elsewhere, including that 'Designing Brooklyn' book, so I guess it must be OK.

Posted by: denton at February 28, 2009 6:56 AM

Denton

My questions aside, I have deep admiration for your project and how you both managed and documented it. Thanks for continuing to share this adventure.

Posted by: Roebling at February 28, 2009 4:31 PM

Hi Denton, My father has two complete old (100 years) oak Brooklyn banisters from his childhood home in a Brooklyn brownstone. Might you have any interest in them? Or do you know anyone who might? He is moving and needs to sell them.
Thanks.
dmurph

Posted by: dmurph at July 31, 2009 6:05 PM

I suggest you to extend the platform stair case is sitting on or a new longer staircase

Posted by: cyrusdesign at November 9, 2009 11:21 AM