No lease in a commercial loft

wow, apparently some of the commenters are landlords. i came here for advice, not to be berated for figuring out my options of what to do in an illegal building that has more of a back-story than what i provided.

many thanks.

Posted by: normanave at December 3, 2007 12:29 PM in response to No lease in a commercial loft

I used to live in a commercial building under a commercial lease. It's a dicey situation. The landlord is probably very much in a legal gray area--it's common to just stop paying your rent in this kind of situation and keep living there until you get some sort of cash payment.

But the problem with your question is that this is not the sort of thing you "negotiate" with your landlord. It's warfare--it's something you just do. He asks you to leave, and you stay. And he tries to get you out by making your living conditions increasingly unlivable, and you stay. And eventually he gives you get a big wad of cash and you leave. It doesn't depend on you negotiating anything--it depends on how much you need the space and what you are willing to put up with!

If you attempt to negotiate, your landlord is probably a great businessman and will, rightly, remind you that you made an agreement with him that he is being very respectful of. He doesn't have to give you three months. Under the terms you agreed to with him, he only has to give you one month. Besides, you agreed to a commercial lease--you waived your right to all your rights as a tenant when you decided to live full time under a commercial lease! He will tell you to go ahead and vacate his loft in March.

I hate to be judgemental, but this is the strangest aspect of gentrification ever--having to explain to some schmuck with a loft full of BDDW furniture how to squat like a real artist in a real loft!

Posted by: guest at December 3, 2007 12:44 PM in response to No lease in a commercial loft

If you have no lease, it's hard for them to kick you out. The Landlord is dumb.

Posted by: guest at December 3, 2007 12:55 PM in response to No lease in a commercial loft

If you are living in a commercial space, I would think it is very easy to kick you out. Arent you violating tenancy laws or something? Cant the landlord just say he had no idea you were actually living there?

Do you really want to get involved in the type of "Warfare" described by 12:44?

I have seen people bought out of leases before expiration or rent control tenants, etc. but I dont really see where you have negotiating power in a month to month commercial lease...

If I were your landlord, I would not be too thrilled with you trying to extort me after giving you 90 days notice to vacate. Why are you looking to essentially shaft him or extort him? Is it greed, or something more you are not telling us?

Posted by: newsouthsloper at December 3, 2007 2:04 PM in response to No lease in a commercial loft

This might be crazy talk, but how about asking nicely? Esp. if you have legit reasons, besides the weather, for wanting to move on March 1st. (Although you do know the earlier in the year you move, the better the selection and lower the prices, right?)

If you can show to the LL you have good reasons for wanting to stay, maybe LL will offer you a cash incentive. All things considered though, it sounds like the LL is giving you a fair shake.

(And if you're looking for sympathy, you might not promote the fact you own high-end furniture.)

Posted by: guest at December 3, 2007 5:40 PM in response to No lease in a commercial loft

The landlord can legally get you out in 24 hours. All he/she has to do in this case is apply for a plumbing repair permit and shut off the water and sprinkler system to the building or specific area. After a phone call fire marshall will them evacuate the building until the landlord decides to apply for a reconection. It has been done for years and is legal. Take the time given to you and find something soon.

Just letting you know how the Comercial space/loft issue works.. Ask the hundereds of DUMBO tenants in the early 90's what happened to them on a cold and rainy night. It made the news for days but nothing was done.

Just my 2 cents,

Good Luck

Joe

Posted by: guest at December 3, 2007 7:18 PM in response to No lease in a commercial loft

Joe is right. If the landlord doesn't understand the plumbing strategy, then 12:44 is right.

Posted by: vanburenproud at December 3, 2007 8:27 PM in response to No lease in a commercial loft

Joe is most decidedly not right. I counseled many tenants in this situation over the years. Go to the LMLT housing clinic as the above poster recommended. Bring your lease and any other residential tenants in your building that you can.

Posted by: guest at December 3, 2007 11:33 PM in response to No lease in a commercial loft

Um, 11:33 - Please re-read the actual post - Tenant does not have a lease, and the building is an "owner occupied" commercial space. Doubt they will get the other owner tenants to join in their plight.

Dont mean to sound condescending, but if you counseled tenants on this issue over the years, care to share how the cases turned out? I am curious to know how an illegal tenant of a commercial space with no lease fared in past situations where a reasonable landlord(so it sounds) provided adequate notice...

I guess that does sound condescending, sorry fot that.

Posted by: newsouthsloper at December 4, 2007 9:12 AM in response to No lease in a commercial loft

To newsouthsloper: A big part of counseling anyone, not just a tenant living illegally in commercial space, is getting the whole story, not just a paragraph posted on a blog. There are many gaps in that paragraph. Owner-occupied: is this owner living there or running a business there? Owner plans to take the units from 3 to 6: is the owner planning on creating 6 residential units or commercial units? If the building has been residential for over 10 years, are there other residential tenants in the building? Answers to these questions might lead to others. In fact, in re-reading your post, you've reached the conclusion from the OP's question that there are "owner tenants," so obviously we're seeing this situation totally differently.

Many of my years of counseling were in connection with the state's Loft Law, which provided a system for bringing commercial buildings which had been illegally rented to residential tenants into compliance with the city's building codes. I do, however, know tenants who moved into commercial spaces not qualified for protection under this law. In some of those cases (and depending on the zoning of the building), the landlords were prohibited from collecting rent until the building received a CofO.

The onus always seems to be on the tenants on this site, whereas the landlords who are responsible for allowing the tenants to move in--knowing they'll live there--get a pass because they should be able to do what they like with their property. But please bear in mind that we wouldn't be answering this question if the landlord hadn't been willing to look the other way for 10 years, or had obeyed the zoning and/or CofO of his/her building.

Finally, I've seen far, far more condescending comments on this blog. But thanks for apologizing anyway.

Posted by: guest at December 4, 2007 10:20 AM in response to No lease in a commercial loft

Thanks for the response - Interesting take, I guess we did interpret the post a little differently.

Sounds like this issue is way more complicated than I would have imagined. Also, the OP doesnt seem to have chimmed in at all with additional info other than "There is more of a back story", so I guess they are either satisfied with the responses, or were maybe looking for a more simple or positive answer.

Cheers!

Posted by: newsouthsloper at December 4, 2007 5:21 PM in response to No lease in a commercial loft