Thank you very much for your responses. This is a huge help.

Posted by: mabilon at October 19, 2009 1:11 PM in response to Exterior Stoop painting

Never mind. I didn't read your post carefully... SOrry.

Posted by: mabilon at October 16, 2009 11:33 AM in response to Unbalanced Heating in 2-Family

One simple thing to check (and you may have done this already so ignore me if you have) is where the thermostat is. Often time, it is on the top floor in the vestibule area of a building and doesn't necessarily kick on when it is colder downstairs than the setting temperature.

Posted by: mabilon at October 16, 2009 11:31 AM in response to Unbalanced Heating in 2-Family

Have similar problem with my 3 story. Top floor radiators cool while downstairs toasty.

Crank the heat, check which radiators go on. Air goes to highest point and can block the heat from top radiators. Mine just needed bleeding and worked fine shortly thereafter.

Even when running perfect there's a bit of a lag for heat to make it to top floor, but only a few minutes.

Posted by: Johnny at October 16, 2009 11:33 AM in response to Unbalanced Heating in 2-Family

Never mind. I didn't read your post carefully... SOrry.

Posted by: mabilon at October 16, 2009 11:33 AM in response to Unbalanced Heating in 2-Family

I spent months figuring this out last winter. My attic too was freezing, and other rooms were way too hot. Generally plumbers can't do the best job here, simply because you need a lot of time (hours/days/weeks, over various outside temp changes) to see the true effect of any adjustment. Changing the air valve sizing on your radiators is key, (assuming your boiler and thermostat are both fine). It's a bit of an art, because changing the vent size on one or more radiators changes the pressure balance, and hence temperature at every other point in the system. I ended up using a combination of Gorton, Varivalve, and Danfoss adjustable valves (with either Gorton or Varivalve air vents instead of the stock danfoss vent) to get exactly what I wanted. There are a lot of resources on the web to help you figure it out, but it takes patience and persistence, and you will probably end up buying more valves than you need, just so you can get the balance correct in the end. It's well worth the effort and acquired knowledge to be able to do it yourself. BTW, don't listen to Johnny - there is no such thing as "bleeding" a steam system. That concept only applies to a hot water system.

Posted by: wyckoff at October 16, 2009 11:57 AM in response to Unbalanced Heating in 2-Family

Seconding the recommendation to "Bleed" the radiators throughout the house. Trapped air is probably keeping the steam from getting to the upper floor. It's relatively simple, but done better by a couple of people. Have your plumber come do it (and do an annual inspection/tune-up of the boiler). Bleeding the radiators makes a HUGE difference, everything will be much more efficient and you'll be able to adjust the thermostat down (no matter where it is located).

Posted by: pkellogg at October 16, 2009 12:13 PM in response to Unbalanced Heating in 2-Family

Forgot to mention - Think about replacing the vents on your steam mains in the basement (they should be located at the corners where the steam pipe goes vertical into the upper floors) with proper ones like the Gorton Air Elimators -- it will make a HUGE difference.

Posted by: wyckoff at October 16, 2009 12:14 PM in response to Unbalanced Heating in 2-Family

Since someone else "seconded" the recommendation to bleed, let's review how a steam system works, so you don't chase down blind alleys: 1) Flame in the boiler heats the water to a boil in the furnace. 2)Boiling water creates steam, and resultant pressure. 3) The steam, under pressure, looks for the easiest way out -- which are air vents on your radiators. 4)Steam travels to the vents, pushing out the air in the pipe in front of it, through the vents. The bigger the vent, the more air can escape, and the faster the steam will go to that vent. 5) Once the steam itself reaches the vent, your radiator will be hot, and the pressure differential will close the vent, blocking more steam from the radiator. 6) As the steam cools it turns to water and runs back down the pipe and back to the boiler for another cycle.

This is very different from a hot water system, where air bubbles can prevent water from circulating through the system, and as such, air needs to be "bled" from the system.

Posted by: wyckoff at October 16, 2009 12:33 PM in response to Unbalanced Heating in 2-Family

The best way to get an old steam system in a big house working perfectly is human sacrifice.

Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at October 16, 2009 1:21 PM in response to Unbalanced Heating in 2-Family

as what slopefarm said.... radiators need to be 'balanced' - this is release valves on the radiator with larger openings furthest from heat source and smaller one closer to it (meaning your apt -)...If this is a newish problem maybe that release valves are clogged upstairs and need to be replaced.
ANy heating/plumbing company can do -- or you can google and get info...draw a chart where your boiler is and radiators are - and also find a helpful plumbing supply store guy if DIY person ( this is nor rocket science).

Posted by: Petebklyn at October 16, 2009 3:18 PM in response to Unbalanced Heating in 2-Family

Brenda nailed it. Works EVERY time.

Wyckoff, you've got a fine understanding of the process of steam heating for a (I'm assuming) non pro.
Except one thing. The air vents close when steam reaches them because they're filled with fluid that expands and closes the air passage.
It's a temperature thing, not necessarily a pressure thing (though high pressure can close them too). Good work!

There are other factors that determine balance, lately the most common one I see is everyone's brand new fancy schmancy programmable thermostat is factory-set to work with a forced air system (something like 85% of US homes are heated with forced crappy air), which requires shorter, more frequent cycles than steam.
Find the anticipator setting or the one that says you're using "hydronic" or "water-based" heating.

Me:
http://www.GatewayPlumbing.com

Posted by: Master Plvmber at October 16, 2009 6:38 PM in response to Unbalanced Heating in 2-Family

master plumber... i had to do exactly that today, because the client had replaced the thermostat himself..who the hell in nyc has forced hot air ( burnt air)

Posted by: eman1234 at October 16, 2009 9:57 PM in response to Unbalanced Heating in 2-Family