Permits - when are they required?

Brooklynnative, have you considered that these types of posts might inform people of things they don't know. Google is great when you know what you are looking for.... Forums are great when information may be valuable for the requestor and other forum members. Also notice that my previous post (the availability of tax photos on propertyshark.com) probably won't come up in a google search until after someone (like me) posts it somewhere....

Posted by: jcsjcs at June 13, 2008 7:12 AM in response to Historic Photographs

if you also just want to see the pictures (of your and your neighbor's house) sign up for the free version of http://www.propertyshark.com .

They have a lot of the taxation photos posted - at least they have mine.... They also have other more recent photos - if your neighborhood has been "targeted."

Posted by: jcsjcs at June 13, 2008 7:09 AM in response to Historic Photographs

Update:
1) To the person looking for a good slate roofer: We tried to find someone a few years back - but had no success. I had one guy who works the East Coast scheduled to come by - but he canceled at the VERY LAST MINUTE. I don't think he liked the looks of Brooklyn.

2) I am working with my contractor to get a fully understandable quote from an expeditor. The first I used suggested significant drawings, permits, etc., while the second believes that permits are required - but without the significant architectural work. We shall see - as I am awaiting a quote. Ideally, this "middle ground" makes most sense where I have the required permits (or perhaps un-required) so that it is clear I made the effort to enlist an "expert." The whole things feels a bit off - as most of us agree that repairs should not warrant permits but I still have "pay" something to get the work done "legally" .....

Will provide updates as my saga continues....

Posted by: jcsjcs at June 13, 2008 6:58 AM in response to Permits - when are they required?

UPDATE: Spoke to my contractor and he is as surprised as I am about requiring extensive permits.

Still confused.... Has anyone had luck calling the DOB for advice?

Obviously the Expeditors and Architects have a financial interest in me getting the maximum number of permits, drawings, etc.

Posted by: jcsjcs at June 10, 2008 4:08 PM in response to Permits - when are they required?

We are not in a Landmark District yet... we are slated for next year or the year after...

Those rules seem pretty vague since:

1) As far as cost, the combined projects are clearly over 10k - but individually they are less. E.g. the roof is about 9k, the columns about 2k plus materials, the stairs about 7k plus materials, and so on.

2) We will be using multiple trades across the entire project, i.e. Roofer for roof, Mason for chimney and stairs, carpenter for columns, and so on. But if each Project is considered seperately - then only one trade each.

3) We are replacing columns - and only removing temporarily as we take one out and put the new one in. So, yes, short term we are impacting the structure of our porch - but ultimately leaving the structure intact with new columns as the goal.

I would imagine since this is all exterior it will be highly visible and so more likely noticed by someone and the safest bet is to pay the $6k for drawings, permits, etc.

If this is the case, I will probably combine this in with a larger renovation and COO change with my architect.

I am still looking for advice - though am leaning towards the permits, etc.

Posted by: jcsjcs at June 10, 2008 3:25 PM in response to Permits - when are they required?

UPDATE: Spoke to my contractor and he is as surprised as I am about requiring extensive permits.

Still confused.... Has anyone had luck calling the DOB for advice?

Obviously the Expeditors and Architects have a financial interest in me getting the maximum number of permits, drawings, etc.

Posted by: jcsjcs at June 10, 2008 4:08 PM in response to Permits - when are they required?

One rule of thumb would be to ask, are these repairs cosmetic or construction? Since, for instance, the stairs are existing and unless you are completly changing them, moving them, or something like that, you are just repairing them. No permit.
You are "replacing" your roof. I would consider it "repairing" your roof. No permit.
Replacing damaged columns. Again, you are going to put the same thing back there, so you are just "repairing" them.
Lowering your chimneys. Chimneys have a recommended height for maximum efficiency. I have opened chimneys in two different buildings I renovated. Both times the chimneys were altered and didn't need a permit.
In my opinion, you don't need a permit for ANY of the work you are doing.
Don't get the DOB involved if you don't have to.

Posted by: guest at June 10, 2008 4:32 PM in response to Permits - when are they required?

It's my understanding that replacement of finishes in kind doesn't require a permit. Replacing plumbing fixtures without relocation is also a non-permit event. All electrical work is supposed to require filing.

I'm not sure what the deal is on filing requirements for calendared landmarks but you'll probably be able to determine this at Landmarks' website.

There are code requirements for heights of chimneys (distance from combustable materials - your roof).

Posted by: guest at June 10, 2008 4:40 PM in response to Permits - when are they required?

I am looking for someone to repair slate. Who are you using? thanks

Posted by: guest at June 10, 2008 4:45 PM in response to Permits - when are they required?

I don't think any of these require permits unless there's a potential hazard to the public right of way. These are repairs, not new construction or a new installation.

Posted by: Steve at June 10, 2008 5:38 PM in response to Permits - when are they required?

I had a similar question a few months back and the advice I got was to get the permits because all you need is one neighbor to complain and one inspector to determine you really should have had a permit and you will be delayed and fined which may be just as expensive as the $6K you are trying to avoid spending and is a major hassle. That resonated with me and thus I am waiting for permit approvals.

Posted by: pmmtenement at June 10, 2008 6:23 PM in response to Permits - when are they required?

I think calling a reputable local expediter is the move. The rules are pretty cut and dry...hard to upsell extra permits unless there is a real need. Search the forums and am sure you'll find recs.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 11:00 AM in response to Permits - when are they required?

I have to second pmmtenenement's comments as dead on accurate and central to the issue.

Although I list the criteria for a permit above (and any one of them triggers the need for filing), bear in mind that these are subject to interpretation by an inspector. So a neighbor calls in to complain, and you may think you don't need a permit, but if the inspector thinks you do you'll end up in ECB court trying to argue your way out of a $5000 fine.

Strangely enough, don't think that getting a permit stops all the monkey business. I have had two projects with full permits, worker's comp and insurance posted, everything by the book -- the contractor has done everything right. The permits were posted clearly on the front of the buildings in both cases. And the neighbors (one neighbor even BRAGGED about doing it) called in complaints and claimed the construction is illegal, and the DoB issued citations to the owners of the projects. The inspector doesn't even look at the permit information or DoB approved perforated drawings, just writes a ticket.

The tickets then immediately get dismissed in ECB court, but it wastes my day and my client's day. It's a complete hassle. I can't imagine what it would be like to do this without the backup of permits, but if a neighbor wants to cause trouble they will and you're I'd imagine you're in better shape when you have them.

Posted by: Smokychimp at June 11, 2008 3:17 PM in response to Permits - when are they required?

Every Tuesday night in all 5 boroughs the DOB has Homeowner's Night: What Homeowners Need to Know About Construction and Home Improvement Contractors, permits ect.

In BROOKLYN
210 Joralemon St., 8th Fl.
At Court Street
Brooklyn, NY 11201
(718) 802-3635

I would call 311 for info but I don't think you need an appointment.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 10:55 PM in response to Permits - when are they required?

Update:
1) To the person looking for a good slate roofer: We tried to find someone a few years back - but had no success. I had one guy who works the East Coast scheduled to come by - but he canceled at the VERY LAST MINUTE. I don't think he liked the looks of Brooklyn.

2) I am working with my contractor to get a fully understandable quote from an expeditor. The first I used suggested significant drawings, permits, etc., while the second believes that permits are required - but without the significant architectural work. We shall see - as I am awaiting a quote. Ideally, this "middle ground" makes most sense where I have the required permits (or perhaps un-required) so that it is clear I made the effort to enlist an "expert." The whole things feels a bit off - as most of us agree that repairs should not warrant permits but I still have "pay" something to get the work done "legally" .....

Will provide updates as my saga continues....

Posted by: jcsjcs at June 13, 2008 6:58 AM in response to Permits - when are they required?