To add to my original posting - some of the damage in the hallway (and I use that word lightly - with the exception of two spots on the wall, the scratches and scrapes have to be pointed out otherwise you'd easily miss it) was caused by the previous tenant.

The landlord said that he had already charged the previous tenant for the damage so I would only be liable for 2/3 of the damage - what he considered my doing.

So, my question is this, what if none of these outrageously priced repairs are even taking place? Does the previous tenant know that their deducted security deposit was sat on, and never actually applied to fixing anything?

Posted by: hotelcharliebravo at September 8, 2008 8:00 PM in response to Security Deposit

Thanks for all of the responses.

Watching the landlord operate over the year we lived there - the petty complaints about one thing and then another, then the illegal renovations that we had to deal with - we halfway expected this and considered withholding the last two months as denton recommended. But it just didn't seem right to me and I, wrongly, trusted the landlord to do the right thing.

Especially for the amount of rent he was charging.

In the video, you can see the landlord saying, "Look, see this scratch on the floor, see it, see it? You have to lean this way and you'll see it. Here, stand over here and you'll see it." Same with the walls. It's sad.

Posted by: hotelcharliebravo at September 8, 2008 2:25 PM in response to Security Deposit

Can someone please post a link to the renter's guide that Florence refers to above? Sadly, giving short notice is sometimes unavoidable - I was month to month and had to give 15 days. My landlord isn't happy, actually, he's never happy, but has been steadily showing the apartment along with a multitude of brokers. Problem is this: the market sucks and my landlord is listing the apartment at a ridiculous amount. He just said to be out a couple days before the end of the month and didn't threaten to take the deposit. Regardless, no way will it rent, no way, in which case, will he come after my deposit as a fallback? Seems likely. Or he could trump up what he considers "wear and tear". No?

And, to further my question, if the deposit is only for damages or unpaid rent and not for my lack of notice, how does he collect?

Posted by: hotelcharliebravo at July 29, 2008 6:37 PM in response to Security Deposit - no lease!

There was no insurance certificate required from the movers by your landlord for a move out. You might be able to get that portion back thru the court. Landlords don't budge when it comes to giving full security back. I have tenants and I give back every penny of their security dposit no matter what.

Posted by: madamlee at September 8, 2008 2:40 PM in response to Security Deposit

>I have a different view. We would never allow a tenant to 'live out' his security deposit by withholding rent. And if one ever did, we would begin eviction immediately.>

By the time you got him into court the lease would be up and the judge would order you to accept the security deposit as back rent.

I appreciate that you are an honest landlord as are many, especially small Brownstoner kind of landlords, but I wonder what percentage are.

When I rented in BH many years ago, upstairs from a deli on Montague Street owned by very well known and respected members of the community (I'm sure you can figure it out) the two young women above me who were moving out (they were from out of town) came to me about getting their deposit back. The landlords refused to give back any of it. Just because they could take advantage of a pair of gullible young women. I told them the same thing. Sorry you had to learn the hard way, but always live out your security deposit.

Posted by: denton at September 8, 2008 3:10 PM in response to Security Deposit

I think you'd have a strong case in small claims court. I would call the landlord and try to discuss with him (yeah right), then send a letter informing him that you plan to pursue the legal route. Repainting the apartment is generally part of normal wear and tear, and may even be required by law when a new tenant moves in (though probably never enforced), and the other things you mentioned also sound like normal wear and tear that should not be taken from the security. I am a landlord in a two family, and I think you've been wronged and should pursue this.

Posted by: mh at September 8, 2008 3:42 PM in response to Security Deposit

Truly obnoxious - sounds like a real asshole. But what the person said above it true - unless you know your landlord well, don't pay last month's rent. Ask for the deposit back and then pay it.

Posted by: gkw at September 8, 2008 4:17 PM in response to Security Deposit

The advice to withhold rent is bad advice and would definitely bring an action on the part of any landlord who's paying attention. The court outcome isn't that important, if you get a judgment against you it will harm your ability to rent the next apartment you apply for.

That doesn't mean the landlord is right, and from your description it sounds like a game of chicken.

There is no question you should file a claim in small claims court; document everything, bring your video, bring as much to support your case as you can. Sue for the amount withheld, plus any costs you incur, legal fees and otherwise. Go before a clerk, you'll get heard quicker and you can always go before a judge if you can't settle. Let the landlord state his case first, take notes, present your case, and refute what you heard as it fits. Get some advice from a landlord/tenant lawyer on the laws governing security deposits.

Also, if there are truly illegal renovations that were made, report them to the dept of buildings.

Posted by: raphael9 at September 8, 2008 4:30 PM in response to Security Deposit

I though I would mention that small claims court is not a big deal and I think a great option in this case. If you can spare 1.5 hours, the city will send your landlord a scary looking letter from the city. The only time I was forced to use it, the day of the trail, I had a check messengered to me. No landlord wants to appear in court. It will give you a leg up in negotiating.

Posted by: Argyle Road at September 8, 2008 4:34 PM in response to Security Deposit

I, too, am a landlord & would discourage the withholding of rent - it's illegal & unfair: you have entered into a contract & should live up to your own standards of behavior. I also go along w/ the idea of taking it to Small Claims Court (who tend to be on the tenant's side.)

I almost always return all of the deposit even though it's tempting to deduct for picture holes & other minor damage. Most painters aren't going to charge for those fill-ins & they don't take much time so, again, I have to live w/ myself & couldn't justify nickle & diming someone who has been a good tenant.

I bet most small landlords are fair - in many cases we've established long-lasting relationships w/ tenants.

Posted by: Arkady at September 8, 2008 4:41 PM in response to Security Deposit

I too do not agree with advice to withhold rent--rent and security are distinctly different, and withholding rent as a method of exiting apartment is a clear violation of your contract (lease), and will put you at deficit if you wind up in court. Start by using certified mail to matter-of-factly request receipts to support the charges by landlord. For information on security deposits, see: http://www.housingnyc.com/html/resources/dhcr/dhcr9.html
In terms of returning security, the key words for assessing your situation are: "At the end of the lease, if the tenant honored the terms and conditions of the lease and left the apartment in the same condition as it was when rented, except for normal wear, the owner must return the full security deposit." When reading DHCR fact sheet, keep in mind that there are differing requirements concerning interest bearing accounts, etc. depending on building size, rent regulation, and other variables, so don't be too quick to include new issues. DHCR fact sheet describes one remedy through Small Claims.

Posted by: vinca at September 8, 2008 6:34 PM in response to Security Deposit

BTW, see also: http://www.housingnyc.com/html/resources/attygenguide.html, especially the section titled "Rent Security Deposits".

Posted by: vinca at September 8, 2008 6:57 PM in response to Security Deposit

Denton:

"By the time you get him to housing court the lease would be up and the judge would order you to accept the security deposit as back rent."

Maybe.

Or, you let the tenant live out his deposit. Then he decides not to move out. And still doesn't pay rent. THEN you begin eviction, but you're now two months behind where you would have been if you began eviction when he decided to live out his deposit. And you don't have any of his money left.

Posted by: curiositykilledthecat at September 8, 2008 7:16 PM in response to Security Deposit