Stinky Neighbor - Please help!

Thanks for the many comments so far! Here are some answers to questions already asked:

First off, my neighbor is not Male. Outside of entering this person's living space, you would never know that this person lived this way. This person's appearance is very clean and well kept tot he "outside" world.

This person is not retired yet and is fully capable of taking care of herself and her living space. Financial means are unknown but this person does work a in respectable job in a financial institution.

I know I can confront this person, but ahead of that, I figured I could post to this "brownstone" community to see if there are any mechanical or construction related solutions to this problem (i.e., building vents, exhaust fans, etc.) that could be strategically installed.

I don't think it's my right to tell another person how to live in the property that they own. I can make suggestions, as it is a "shared" dwelling (co-op) and then this person can decide whether to make the necessary changes or not. I'm anticipating that little will be accomplished through the speaking route.

However regardless of this person's cooperation, I need to make this problem go away, as it is greatly effecting my home and family life.

Referrals to environmental/building air consultants or companies that handle these types of issues are greatly appreciated! Creative ideas to help relieve the air pressure coming from downstairs are also welcome!

-G

Posted by: goober at March 12, 2008 10:56 AM in response to Stinky Neighbor - Please help!

Thanks for the continued comments! Here are some further answers to the continued questions asked:

Yes, this is a rare, two unit co-op. In fact, I am the President of the Co-op, and I have more property shares, than my neighbor, but that does little in my favor as voting rights are 50/50 -- a guaranteed stalemate. There might be some provisions in the articles of the co-op, or the proprietary lease to help my situation, but again, it doesn't guarantee anything in my favor. I want to solve the problem, not get into endless and expensive litigation, which only wastes money that could be spent on a mechanical or construction-based solution, which is what I sought ideas/recommendations for in making this posting in the first place.

As far as the smell coming from "living things in the floor/wall spaces". Because, in the past, I've needed to pass through this person's residence, I know the odors originate from there. We have had past and recent issues with mice and roaches coming from the common walls/floors dividing this building into our residences, but that was mitigated with sealing the openings, to the best of our ability (however, pressurized odoriferous air still finds a way in through finding another path of least resistance), and through having a regular exterminator service. Moreover, since we are in a row of attached buildings there is not 100% assurance that the mice/roach issues were originating from below. However, the odor is originating from below.

Pets? No, the neighbor hasn't any pets, so that's not to blame.

Mental Illness? I'm no authority, but I don't sense any sort of apparent issues, nor would I fault any condition at this point in time. This person generally keeps to herself and, again, to the outside world, seems ordinary, communicative and friendly. Delving into this issue about how one lives and why and any chance of mental illness would be getting very, very personal. I will not go there. Is it really any of my business? Again, I believe live and let live, and "out of sight, out of mind". When/if the odor situation is mitigated, with or without the involvement of this individual, is what I care about. How this person continues to live their live is none of my business.

Please keep the responses/suggestions coming...

-G

Posted by: goober at March 12, 2008 1:53 PM in response to Stinky Neighbor - Please help!

Here's some more follow up feedback:

No, these odor's aren't a recent issue that's just started. It's been ongoing for months and months and months. It's just come to a head and we need to deal with it, because it seems to be getting worse.

Building Air flow was definitely altered when the renovation was done. Before the renovation, we did smell the odor, but it wasn't as potent and was only in one area of the living space.

Of course when my neighbor cooks, it exasperates the odor issue. We get inundated with the cooking fumes for hours, on top of the normal odor issue. It can be quite disturbing when you're experiencing cooking odors of someone else's that simply aren't pleasant. We've basically stopped entertaining guests at our place because it's so offensive.

Yes, you are right about the air pressure. Opening our windows does cause even more odor to be brought through the cracks/gaps floor and walls, even though we feel we are think we are helping ourselves by "airing out" our living space.

My neighbor has all the windows in her living space closed all the time. Thus, my living space become the "exhaust" for my neighbors odors.

We will end up confronting my neighbor in some way but, again, that'll probably have the limited utility that others have experienced and commented about. You really can't teach an old dog new tricks, so to speak. I'm still betting on the answer to be better sealing of the floors and walls, or replacement of the old parquet floors with something more tongue and groove and vents in the roof to make that the lowest pressure avenue for inner-wall, inner floor air.

Yes, it'll cost money. We're not thinking it won't, like all 1883 buildings that have had previous owner renovations in disrepair, we've needed to fix and bring up-to-date lots of other things already. We wouldn't have bought into a dwelling like this if we couldn't commit capital to it.

Any more suggestions?

-G

Posted by: goober at March 12, 2008 7:52 PM in response to Stinky Neighbor - Please help!

More answers to continued questions:

I looked the hoarding informational website link provided, and could say that this person may have similar habits to this disorder, but again, only an expert could make such a determination.

No, this person is not a relative or personal friend.

Once again, thanks for all the comments to date. We're taking all the ideas and suggestions into consideration and will be taking a variety of actions soons

-G

Posted by: goober at March 13, 2008 11:10 AM in response to Stinky Neighbor - Please help!

I must say, goober, you have a very magnanimous attitude with respect to your situation. I hope you are able to maintain it when it comes time to sell and potential buyers inquire about the presence of a humming positive pressurization system or make the trip down to the garden to see the outdoor space amenity.

Posted by: johnife at March 12, 2008 2:12 PM in response to Stinky Neighbor - Please help!

I used to live on Barrow street in a large building with a pretty crazy woman on the first floor. The smells were terrible. The building had been co-oped and she was a holdover rent stablized tenant. The management desperately wanted to do something about but couldn't. I think going to outside agencies is not the solution. You have to be able to work it out with the woman or move. You seem like a very reasonable polite person. I'd think you have to bite the bullet and tell your "neighbor to pick up some new living space hygiene practices?"

Posted by: Brooklynnative at March 12, 2008 3:31 PM in response to Stinky Neighbor - Please help!

Considering all aspects of the situation and that there isn't a coop board or anyone else to help, the best first step is to tell her this:

"I'm sure this is embarrassing, I am reluctant to intrude on your personal life or space, but the smells from your apartment are entering mine and it is deteriorating my quality of life as well as my property value. I know home ownership can be overwhelming. I am happy to help you remedy the situation. I'll help you pay for a thorough cleaning. Whatever you decide, this must be taken care of because it is unfair for me to have to live this way."

Be firm and clear you know your rights, but also be sympathetic. I would put all that in writing in a dated letter, then follow up with talking to her about it. If she doesn't respond, or tells you go to hell, or makes promises but doesn't do anything then you will have to take steps with outside parties. But you'll need the letter to show you did try to talk to her and work it out between you two.

Posted by: guest at March 12, 2008 4:51 PM in response to Stinky Neighbor - Please help!

We have a similar problem, but live in a large Co-op building though. Older man, long time rental resident - just doesn't clean. Odors are in our hallway, but thankfully don't come into our apartment. He has been taken to court by they Co-op and was then forced to clean, but a few months later it smells again. We have called 311. They will only take an odor Health Department complaint if it is coming from an animal (feces, etc). Our neighbor does have a dog.
Our major complaint though is that we have had fleas for two years - bombed twice, use flea traps, vacuum every day, spray the hallway, etc. We don't have any pets!
We also mop the hallway, put air freshener, open the hall window to mitigate the odor.
We spoke with our neighbor about the issues, gave him flea medicine for his dog, roach traps, suggested he bomb his apartment. The man doesn't think he has any issues. We finally got him to admit he "might" have mice.
Right now he has been taken back to court and has been appointed a guardian...so there are obviously mental issues.
We also have a crazy cat lady right down the hall with 80+ cats and 2 large dogs. She owns her place. We have reported her to the health department and they have inspected. Unfortunately, since the conditions aren't horrible - dead cats, feces, etc. They didn't really do anything, but continue to monitor her. The ASPCA also doesn't enforce for number of cats, only if they are mistreated. She definitely has a strong animal farm type odor too. We have spoken to her about possibly reducing her numbers and to stop feeding feral cats around the building...but she didn't take this suggestion very well...
We live in a "pet friendly" building. It does have a rule about notifying the Management to get approval for animals....but no one enforces the rule and there is no set number or type of animal requirements.
Are there attorneys that focus on quality of life issues in NYC? Are there even any grounds for suing the Co-op / resident to get things moving?....At this point though I think we are just better off moving since these issues have been ongoing for so long, we have an ineffective and unsympathetic Co-op board and our Management company is very shady (also sponsor with majority shares). Help!

Posted by: guest at March 12, 2008 5:23 PM in response to Stinky Neighbor - Please help!

Perhaps your neighbor is also suffering from the stench... could be rodents have died inside the floors and walls, since you mentioned that your building had an infestation of roaches and mice.

Your renovation most likely stirred up the rodent activity and again, after extermination services, the mice crawled off and died inside floors and walls.

If that's the case, in a month or so, the odors will diminish.

I would think that you definitely would have noted an awful stench when viewing your present unit prior to purchase if it were truly coming from your neighbor's unit.

Politely approach your neighbor, and ask her if she has noticed the awful smell... explain how it's affecting your quality of life... maybe she thinks it's coming from your place! :)

Try the conservative approach first before you jump into huge expenses unnecessarily.

Posted by: bren at March 12, 2008 5:59 PM in response to Stinky Neighbor - Please help!

If you can befriend your neighbor and slowly approach the issue. You don't want to rush into it and end up with a noise situation as well.

Posted by: guest at March 12, 2008 6:23 PM in response to Stinky Neighbor - Please help!

This is a pretty involved idea...
Think in terms of positive and negative air pressure. Air will move to the lowest pressure area in a building. So for example if you open a window or vent in your apartment to "air out the stink" you may actually be letting air pressure out of your apt. This means that air from downstairs may come up through the floor and walls from your neighbor.
On the other hand if you had an intake fan bringing air into your apt it may give you a positive pressure, thusly not drawing as much air from downstair. To take this a step farther if you could (covertly, or not) put a fan out take fan from the neighbors place, decreasing their pressure even further, giving the air less reason to escape to your apt.
Kinda bizarre I know, it may not even work, but an idea.

Posted by: guest at March 12, 2008 6:26 PM in response to Stinky Neighbor - Please help!

^^^
Yeah, that's what I was implying with my "positive pressurization" comment. But you're right, it's pretty involved. You would have to introduce some means of heating or cooling the outside air you're bringing in during the winter and summer. Could get REAL expensive in terms of both capital and running costs.

Posted by: johnife at March 12, 2008 6:53 PM in response to Stinky Neighbor - Please help!

Are you sure she didn't have a husband nobody has seen in a while?

Posted by: guest at March 12, 2008 7:06 PM in response to Stinky Neighbor - Please help!

Here's some more follow up feedback:

No, these odor's aren't a recent issue that's just started. It's been ongoing for months and months and months. It's just come to a head and we need to deal with it, because it seems to be getting worse.

Building Air flow was definitely altered when the renovation was done. Before the renovation, we did smell the odor, but it wasn't as potent and was only in one area of the living space.

Of course when my neighbor cooks, it exasperates the odor issue. We get inundated with the cooking fumes for hours, on top of the normal odor issue. It can be quite disturbing when you're experiencing cooking odors of someone else's that simply aren't pleasant. We've basically stopped entertaining guests at our place because it's so offensive.

Yes, you are right about the air pressure. Opening our windows does cause even more odor to be brought through the cracks/gaps floor and walls, even though we feel we are think we are helping ourselves by "airing out" our living space.

My neighbor has all the windows in her living space closed all the time. Thus, my living space become the "exhaust" for my neighbors odors.

We will end up confronting my neighbor in some way but, again, that'll probably have the limited utility that others have experienced and commented about. You really can't teach an old dog new tricks, so to speak. I'm still betting on the answer to be better sealing of the floors and walls, or replacement of the old parquet floors with something more tongue and groove and vents in the roof to make that the lowest pressure avenue for inner-wall, inner floor air.

Yes, it'll cost money. We're not thinking it won't, like all 1883 buildings that have had previous owner renovations in disrepair, we've needed to fix and bring up-to-date lots of other things already. We wouldn't have bought into a dwelling like this if we couldn't commit capital to it.

Any more suggestions?

-G

Posted by: goober at March 12, 2008 7:52 PM in response to Stinky Neighbor - Please help!