No- it's a Manhattan one. You're the one who said we weren't an "actual neighborhood"- your words. And who didn't find Foodtown up to your standards. You certainly don't need anyone's consent to move to Brooklyn but i do suggest you come here understanding that Manhattan is across the bridge.

I hope you do move to Crown Heights- it is a nice neighborhood but it may not meet your expectations. While it's been slower to change, the housing values seem to be pretty solid, it's been landmarked- there's a lot of pluses but it isn't Park Slope. For my money the big realtors have pushed up the prices higher than they should be but if you like a challenge you'll love it here.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at February 29, 2008 6:50 PM in response to Rentals of the Week: Crown Heights North

4:04- Crown Heights North is an actual neighborhood. What did you think? People have lived in this neighborhood for years- do you think we all go to Park Slope? I think you've lived in Manhattan too long. Brooklyn is a great place to live but you make osme tradeoffs. You may not have a Starbucks on every corner here, but you get a lot more house for your money than you do in Manhattan. Crown Heights is a great neighborhood but if you will have to go a little further afield if you want certain things. It's a different lifestyle. Brooklyn isn't, and I hope will never be Manhattan.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at February 29, 2008 6:15 PM in response to Rentals of the Week: Crown Heights North

3:25- well you can always go into manhattan and waste your money in more expensive places if you're that much of a snob. Foodtown happens to be great- clean, new, well-stocked and lots of variety.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at February 29, 2008 3:56 PM in response to Rentals of the Week: Crown Heights North

FYI- there is key food and if you cross Atlantic to Fulton there is Foodtown. they deliver and you can order online- they're really great. There's a Petland and a host of businesses- it's not nearly as trendy as Park Slope- but you can get pretty much everything you need. People have been doing so for well over a hundred years. It's not a vacuum over here.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at February 29, 2008 3:22 PM in response to Rentals of the Week: Crown Heights North

I moved here from Brooklyn Heights- never regretted it. If you don't live here and your "knowledge and expertise" have been acquired through the internet and news papers, your comments about what life is like here in Crown Heights North really have no validity. And to add to Montrose Morris' comment about being landmarked- it isn't as if landmark designations drop down from heaven like gentle rain. It took years of very hard, dedicated work by a lot of people- and the work was done, not by white gentrifyiers, but by long time multigenerational residents and homeowners. So if that's what makes CHN a "bullshit" district, then bullshit is a compliment.

11:55- this is Brownstoner.com, not Brownstonehomeowner.com. There are plenty of us who rent and bring just as much to the neighborhood as homeowners. Don't like us? go back to Manhattan.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at February 29, 2008 2:30 PM in response to Rentals of the Week: Crown Heights North

The What: how much of AY did you think will actually get built? I'm really wondering how much he will actually downscale- and more importantly, will we know about it before he gets all our promised money. I don't really know how all that works- is it all on paper until the project is truly underway? Or does he basically have it in the bank, so to speak, and we will never see it again?

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at February 25, 2008 1:10 PM in response to Where’s the Dough for AY Affordable Housing?

Ay will create jobs for a select group of folk- the developers,construction industry and friends of FCR. Supposedly jobs were going to go to the community via groups like Build but they were talking maybe 1000 jobs total and the chance to get into the union. FCR is supposedly a union project so I would love to know why they began the disastrous Bakery demo with a non union company- and with such interesting results? If that doesn't show everyone how much they can count on Ratner's word I don't know what will. So while we taxpayers will have to keep the promises our elected political leaders so stupidly made to Ratner, there is obviously no constriction on him to keep his.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at February 25, 2008 1:07 PM in response to Where’s the Dough for AY Affordable Housing?

Well,that's odd since the issue really is that Ratner is making the money off of us taxpayers and had very cynically played the race card to manipulate everyone. (Rev. Daugherty and Acorn take your bows now). I have no problem with my taxes going to help people have a place to live. I really object to my taxes going to line the pockets of a guy who could buy and sell the whole state 5 times over. If ou want to have something to complain about, complain about the breaks AY is being given and how much money THAT is costing the people of NYC.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at February 25, 2008 9:58 AM in response to Where’s the Dough for AY Affordable Housing?

And, might I add, since the obesity problem is nationwide and covers every group and culture, only a racist would target comments about obesity and garbage to those living in the Farragut houses.

Might I also ask "guest" how their comments add anything intelligent to the discussion of the Row and saving it? It isn't in danger from the inhabitants of the towers, it's indanger from greedy developers and short sighted politicians anxious to please their developer friends.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at January 18, 2008 6:34 PM in response to Officers’ Row Supermarket Not Happening Anytime Soon

I don't think their intent is to build within scale. If anything this will give them a work around to cram oversized development down the throat of Brownstone Brooklyn. If they are all about the art of architecture, there is a whole lot more they could have done up to now. Otherwise explain how so many Fedders buildings have gone up in Bed-Stuy? How about making developers not only keep in scale, but also the "look" of the buildings? No more bright pink brick boxes with cheesy exteriors- now there's an issue they aren't dealing with.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at January 18, 2008 11:18 AM in response to AIA’s Zoning Tweaks Draw Heat

I also disagree with Ms. James on this issue but I guess from her point of view, her constituents need a supermarket more. And they do- but why it has to be on Officer's Row is the question. the only reason I can see is that it was thrown in as a sop to the community. Certainly not out of altruism or care.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at January 18, 2008 11:07 AM in response to Officers’ Row Supermarket Not Happening Anytime Soon

They, through timing or friends are trying to get their proposal pushed through without the usual scrutiny. Interesting how the best intentions of a group can be so thoroughly compromised by money and loopholes. Wonder if anyone will take up the conflict of interest at the AIA and investigate?

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at January 18, 2008 11:01 AM in response to AIA’s Zoning Tweaks Draw Heat

So I guess it's not politically correct to tell people who don't live nearby to shut up about AY but it is to assume that every anti-AYer is a "johnny come lately"? So now born in Brooklyn is the new litmus test? Hold on, I have to sit down and stop laughing. Well, you can believe that if it makes you feel better, but itdon't make it so."

11:49- Are you sure you are Pro-AY? Of course the big problem is that the major effects will be felt after the fact. And then it's too late. I'm also not surprised, but rather saddened by how pro-AYers are so rabid on having this monstrosity of urban bad planning go up and think it's all about improving Brooklyn. It hasn't occured to them that everyone will be paying for this project in terms of inconvenience, traffic,noise, polution and overcrowding, while they line ratner's pockets. Does anyone seriously think Ratner gives a Rat's ass about Brooklyn?

That said, Metrotech was a plus for the area- I lived over that way and it's the truth. But Metrotech is in a main city center, and is in scale to the area. It was a much more intelligent plan than AY, which as far as I can tell is simply an architectural testosterone trip for him and his friends.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at January 17, 2008 1:12 PM in response to AY Appeal Denied, Construction Headaches Begin

Maybe they're just discovering that you can't have a stable economy without the middle class (upper and lower)- in a very interesting and cynical op-ed last week, the NY Times said it is the middle and lower working classes that spend money so to stimulate the economy, they should get a ebate or tax benefit because they will spend it. The rich, however, hold onto their money- and of course they can afford to. And in a government study, it was found that across the country, it is small business, and mom-and-pop businesses that contribute the most to the tax base. Interesting, no? So maybe the financial powers-that-be are beginning to get it. It ain't the rich that keep us afloat.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at January 17, 2008 12:53 PM in response to Two Affordable Housing Developments Planned in Bed-Stuy

The courts are manned by people who have relationships with ratner, developers and politicians. Judges are not appointed based on their skill and experience- you can read the Times about that very issue today. They are political appointees or put up for election by virtue of their connections.

As for the idea that anti-AY people are chicken littles- seems to me that ratner and the pro-AYers long ago presented this project as the savior of Brooklyn. Talk about your religious nut jobs. No one thinks of stoop-pissing as armageddon, but rather than deal with the very real concerns of a project this size, pro-AYers simply brush them aside and will continue to do so until the real impact is felt and all the pro-AY hype is proved to be a lie. Enjoy your Roman circus...er...Nets games. Who knew it would be so cheap and easy to win you over?

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at January 17, 2008 10:39 AM in response to AY Appeal Denied, Construction Headaches Begin

my point wasn't the subway- it was the fact that they are touting the hub as a reason they don't have to worry about traffic- "everyone will take the train!" and improvements- fine. But unless you excavate more bedrock you can't make the station bigger. And Yankee Stadium has a huge parking lot, and is off a major roadway. It's not ideal but there is realistic access for cars because the truth is, people will drive. But in Brooklyn it's the 800 lb gorilla in the room, fed by ostriches who think if they refuse to acknowledge the problem it will go away. And it is not an issue just on game night. They projected to make money the arena will have to host events around 315 days a year. And there are other issues besides people- there's the mess and the noise and the strain on the infrastructure and area services. Brooklyn was never given the density of services Manhattan was (look at the subway map again). I'm all for building in the area- don't get me wrong. We need development in that area- but something on this scale is just short-sighted and foolish.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at January 14, 2008 8:43 PM in response to Anti-AY Lawsuits: And Then There Was One

My favorite smokescreen is the " it's on a subway hub. everyone will use the subway to come tothe games or get to work." If you have never been in the "hub" during rush hour you shouldn't even type on this forum about the so-called intelligent planning of this complex.

For games and events, the outer reaches of Brooklyn are not that easily accessible by subway because if you have ever looked at a subway map, you'll see how underserved Brooklyn truly is. Which is why there are so many cars and why- hello!- they get driven. All those Nets fans (aren't they going to be the Brooklyn team and won't we all rush to support them?) will not necessarily be able to hop on a train. And aftrer the game, going home? Not that many people relish a long walk late at night- they will bring their cars.

That hub would have to be hugely reconfigured to handle the extra capacity just for the complex alone, let alone on game night. And the bigger problem is that at the present time the system cannot be added to- it operates at maximum capacity now in terms of trains and schedules. You can't pack the tracks any more. And as for adding new lines- at least 10-15 years. They already did the studies and reports- this is the reality. There are some interesting alternatives- like above ground train lines- but since we are giving all that money to ratner for his AY folly, we obviously don't have money for that. And of course we are also spending transportation money on a new line to the airport- but forget about the daily back and forth of people getting to work. I guess it's just not sexy enough to think about. Not like a stadium.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at January 14, 2008 6:13 PM in response to Anti-AY Lawsuits: And Then There Was One

I can't for the life of me think why anyone who knows this area of Brooklyn and has ever taken a train or a bus or a car could ever think that there is no or will be minimal impact to the area. I can't imagine why the taxpayers should have to cough up anything -let alone 2 billion dollars worth - to build this complex. But it's pretty obvious FCR has lined more than a few pockets and kissed more than a few butts. I'm all for keeping the construction industry employed but how about the rest of us, and the impact on us?

So far as wanting George Bush for another term- i shudder at the thought. It's embarrassing for this country to have such a moron as its leader. Wouldn't be so bad if he was a harmless moron but unfortunately he actually believes he is a capable, competent leader. So brooklyn Couch- since you're so up for it, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and join the Army and go to Iraq or Afghanistan to prove how great another term of GWB is? I'll bet you another one of those armchair warrior/chicken hawk types who love to beat your "manly" chest as long as they don't have to go. Hmmm....just like George Bush and Dick Cheney.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at January 14, 2008 5:40 PM in response to Anti-AY Lawsuits: And Then There Was One

great post, MM! I had a close friend who lived in Bed-Stuy then and I used to visit. The first time I went there I met them at the train station (in the 80's) on Nostrand and Fulton. I waited upstairs and the only person who ever accosted me- in all the times I went to that area over the years- looked am me and said" Honey, with your white face you stand out like a candle in the night- do you need some help? Are you lost?" Compare that to asking someone for directions in lower Manhattan. Wall st. types simply ignore you.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at January 12, 2008 11:46 AM in response to Open House Picks

10:07 they do in Crown heights too.

I just wonder if the market is simply shaking down to where it would have been without the pumped up real estate mania of the last few years? NYC it seems, is still a good investment for real estate and certainly seems to be bucking the overall national trends.

I also ownder if the market is looked at in the long run, we would see that these "brownstone" neighborhoods- and by that I mean older areas filled with town and row houses, and older Victorian homes- don't retain their overall desirability or their potential much more so than neighborhoods filled with high rises and feders condos. All the granite countertops in the world don't fulfill a need for neighborhoods that are made for livibility. (I think that's a word?) Even neighborhoods that have fallen to the bottom of the scale seem to retain an innate appeal and come back up- it just seems to take longer, and over a longer period of time.

I've lived in projects, hi rise co-ops, a victorian mansion and townhouses. There is a real difference in how the architecture affects the neighborhood- or the creation of a neighborhood. If you dehumanize the building, you dehumanize the neighborhood- Bed-Stuy- for all the news reports and people flaring their nostrils in fear at the mere mention of living there- was always a neighborhood. And the core of that neighborhood endured. Generations of families live there, and in Crown Heights and PLG- and no- not because they are on welfare. I warrant if you check back in 10 or 20 years to the Hi-rise apartment building I lived in in the Bronx, the majority of them have not lived there more than 10 years. The error devolpers are making today is that they don't build for context.

There are apartment complexes that also create neighborhoods- Amalgamated in the Bronx is one. Generations of families live there, the scale is human, and beautiful, and the area has been stable for over 80 years.

Posted by: at January 12, 2008 11:35 AM

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at January 12, 2008 11:38 AM in response to Open House Picks

NOP- I think NYC IS a much more socially reasonable place to live than what you would think from readings blogs. I wouldn't judge reality by posters- too many love the anononymity of the web and use it to vent things they wouldn't have the guts to say out loud. Then there are those who love the web and use it like a library for their interests. But I think the majority of people really don't spend a ton of time on blogs so the viewpoint we get is really skewed.I put more trust in what happens every day when i walk out the door than the picture I see painted on the blogs.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at January 11, 2008 8:36 PM in response to Open House Picks

6:38-
I'm sure there are some who do, but even so. People buy into fringe neighborhoods for a variety of reasons, and the truth of the matter is neighborhoods are far more complex than news reports would have you think. Word of mouth alone will not protect anyone's investment- there has to be more behind it. I just object to the wholesale assumption that those who defend their neighborhood are lying. What i do beleive is that the pricing is driven by real estate investors who look at the long term. Brooklyn is prime real estate these days and Bed-Stuy, with the gentrification jump-start it has, looks good to them. And they want as much money as possible. Yes- so do sellers, but most sellers go to a professional for their expertise and knowledge. I (horrors!) rent in CH. I love here. I'm White and have never been treated with anything but respect since I moved here. So it's not the Upper East Side. It's also so not the hellhole some people insist it must be.

I think prices are inflated all over NYC and the inflating of prices is no good for anyone.

As for: "We will surely continue to see the ramifications of this upper class, lower class situation as it plays out in the impending recession in Bed Stuy as the folks who have lived there in poverty for generations come to grips that many of their new neighbors continue to prosper as they are left behind..."

i think you are making several assumptions. One is that poor people are inherently violent and jealous and will try to destroy their neighbors who have money. The second assumption is that people will simply ocntinue to be left behind- as if they have no interest in or desire to change.

A look at the changes in this country over the last 25 years or so disprove those assumptions. Everything changes, and while Bed-Stuy may take longer to "gentrify" based on the economy, it will still happen.

It is also a disservice to forget the many men and women who live in these neighborhoods who work and pay taxes and raise their families. They've always been there, they've always fought to better things and improve things. If Bed-Stuy, or Crown Heights, or PLG or any of the "fringe " neighborhoods didn't have this core, we wouldn't be discussing them on Brownstoner today.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at January 11, 2008 7:11 PM in response to Open House Picks

I think most of us would be much happier if the neighborhood bashing didn't happen but unfortunately a lot of "guests" really don't care about the neighborhoods or real estate or much of anything. they do care about playing games on forums- i think there are professional roving trolls who purposefully write incendiary things on blogs to upset everyone.

I live in Crown Heights and love it. Yes- there are problems. No, its not perfect but the benefits and good points outweigh the negatives. I think as neighborhoods change the crime rates go up and down in any case and from year to year. One year does not a neighborhood make.

3:51 yes, all those factors that come into play are ultimately about people and every neighborhood is different. Yes some are safer than others, but it just seems that people judge places like Bed-Stuy, CH, PLG etc. without having any real experience or knowledge of them. The stats may not lie, but not only can they be manipulated, but they do not explain. So if MM and others are saying their neighborhood is a great place to live, it's the truth. It's not being defensive, it's not about saving their propertty values, it's not about being blind in rose-colored glasses.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at January 11, 2008 6:22 PM in response to Open House Picks

there is- a slumlord is a slumlord no matter race, creed, or color. But the website is a real crap piece of work. I just don't think people should be making an issue of his religious or ethnic background because he is a creep as a human being. If you want to go that route the forum will degenerate into a what color/religion is your slumlord and we do not need that.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at January 11, 2008 12:31 PM in response to In the Shadow of McCarren Park: 544 Union Avenue