brownlime's Profile

Name:
Jeff
In Brooklyn Since:
wanna move back
On Brownstoner Since:
June 2009
Location:
Manhattan
Neighborhood:
Abode:
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Sex:
Male
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Author's Posts

November 18, 2009

Habitable? Financing? Time-Bomb?

I visited a three-story (plus cellar) brownstone for sale. It sorely needs a gut renovation, and is priced accordingly.

(Asking price is 1.1M. The selling prices of post-reno comps are in the 1.6M to 1.7M range.)

To my eye, the exterior walls look okay.
The interior, however, is a wreck.

My concerns involve the roof and the electricity.

It looks like part of the roof is collapsing.

In the master bedroom (on the top floor) there is a hole in the ceiling, two feet in diameter. You can't see through to the sky, but you can see that the ceiling is rotting.

Toward the middle of that same room, not far from the hole in the ceiling, there's a home-made, impromptu, floor-to-ceiling support beam, made of cardboard boxes piled on top of a home exercise machine (!) which seems to be holding up part of the ceiling.

There are a couple of garbage cans in the master bedroom to catch the water when it rains.

Although most of the water damage seems to be in the master bedroom, there are additional water stains in other parts of the building, both on walls and on ceilings.

The view from the backyard shows some of the roof sagging over the back of the building.

As to the electricity, it was non-functioning in much of the brownstone. The realtor had to use a flashlight to show us around.

Does anyone have any thoughts about whether banks would be willing to provide a mortgage for a place like this?

Or, would banks consider the building to be unhabitable, and deny a mortgage?

I'd rather not make an offer and hire an inspector if I'd just be wasting my time and money.

Does anyone have any additional thoughts?

Thanks!

July 30, 2009

5-Unit C of O?

While looking for a brownstone/limestone to purchase, I've come across some where the "c of o" is for 5 or more units. Some of these units are SRO units.

If I buy a brownstone, I would want to divide it into two or three units. I would live in one of these units.

What issues should I be aware of regarding the c of o? Is difficult to get a mortgage when the c of o is for 5 units?

Is it difficult to change a c of o?

Thanks!

July 28, 2009

Painted Limestone

Hello.

I'm shopping for a new home. Hope to move back to Bklyn!
I've looked at some limestone buildings that have had their limestone exteriors been painted. If I were to buy one of these, how much trouble and expense would be involved in stripping the paint and restoring the beautiful limestone?

Has anyone on Brownstoner had experience with this?

Thanks!

This Old House

I just learned that the TV show This Old House did a 10-part series on renovating a Prospect Heights Brownstone.

Does anyone know how I could get to watch it? (I think it's not on Youtube).

Thanks!

Author's Comments

Vinca,
Thanks for the input.
I agree that the building has a potential to create many costly surprises. As you say: "Everything may go great, without a hitch, and entirely within budget, but I wouldn't rely on that."

Posted by: brownlime at November 20, 2009 10:26 AM in response to Habitable? Financing? Time-Bomb?

Ray,

Thanks for the words of caution.
They confirm my thoughts: The discount on this brownstone should be great enough to cover the not-unlikely problems that may arise, including structural problems. (Assuming I could even obtain financing).

Posted by: brownlime at November 19, 2009 10:30 PM in response to Habitable? Financing? Time-Bomb?

Thanks Adam.
I'll look into 203k with caution.

Posted by: brownlime at November 19, 2009 6:09 PM in response to Habitable? Financing? Time-Bomb?

Thanks y'all for your helpful advice!
You confirmed what I was thinking and you provided some extra thought-avenues.
Very helpful!

Posted by: brownlime at November 19, 2009 5:25 PM in response to Habitable? Financing? Time-Bomb?

Thanks, DIBS.

I agree that 1.1M does not leave much room for expensive suprises that may arise.

Anyone have any ideas about mortgage issues regarding buying an inhabitable building?

Posted by: brownlime at November 19, 2009 2:47 PM in response to Habitable? Financing? Time-Bomb?

Ray,
I have no experience in renovations.
Do you think that the $100,000 per floor complete gut renovation figure might not apply to a building that's been so sorely negelcted?

Posted by: brownlime at November 19, 2009 1:00 PM in response to Habitable? Financing? Time-Bomb?

DIBS,
The house is located in Park Slope.
Any thoughts about mortgage issues?
What about reno issues?
Emercency roof repair issues?

Posted by: brownlime at November 19, 2009 11:41 AM in response to Habitable? Financing? Time-Bomb?

Beautiful penny vestibule buried Brooklyn treasure!

Posted by: brownlime at November 18, 2009 11:07 PM in response to Beneath the Surface

FixtheCanal,
Thanks for your view on the issue of the value of a three-family homes. It confirms the impression I'm beginning to get: most people who can afford a brownstone don't want 2 tenants. (But, of course, there's a great economic advantage to having 2 tenants!)

Posted by: brownlime at September 11, 2009 11:39 AM in response to House of the Day: 455 Henry Street

"Do three family's typically demand less on the market?"
That's a good question, Bklynrosie.
Does anyone have an opinion?

Posted by: brownlime at September 10, 2009 5:03 PM in response to House of the Day: 455 Henry Street

Brilliant angles!

Posted by: brownlime at September 10, 2009 4:58 PM in response to Thursday Blogwrap

This looks like a lovely house -- and it's in a beautiful neighborhood. The absence of a sub-basement, however, substantially diminishes its value.

Posted by: brownlime at September 10, 2009 3:51 PM in response to House of the Day: 455 Henry Street

Petebklyn:
Take a walk near 31 Joralemon and you will agree with Nomi that the BQE is very loud there. It's not similar to most of Brooklyn Heights, and it's not normal or typical NYC noise. You don't need any "determination to find negatives" to hear how loud it is.

Posted by: brownlime at September 10, 2009 3:05 PM in response to House of the Day: 40 Joralemon Street

Boerumresident:

I don't know how much 31 Joralemon went into contract for, but it was very very close to the BQE, and you could hear cars zooming by loudly. To me, it completely ruined the habitability of the home. (I'm sensitive to noise). It also needed a complete gut renovation, I was told by the realtor. Nevertheless, I bet it went into contract for close to the 1.5 asking price. Great location if you're not sensitive to noise.

40 Joralemon, although only a few houses away (and on the other side of the street), is not too terribly close to the BQE. I think that, under normal conditions, you can't hear, from 40 Joralemon, the traffic on the BQE. But I'm not sure. Does that part of the BQE get backed up with horns-a-honking?

Posted by: brownlime at September 9, 2009 6:36 PM in response to House of the Day: 40 Joralemon Street

Shhh, peaceful.

Posted by: brownlime at September 9, 2009 6:17 PM in response to Wednesday Blogwrap

11217:

That these PJs are "no less ugly than the Clinton Hill Co-ops or the Co-ops over on Congress Street in Cobble Hill" doesn't mean that these PJs aren't ugly. Simply put, these PJs are ugly!

And I don't think that "2 blocks from Park Slope's 5th Avenue and 2 blocks to Smith Street" qualifies as "no lack of services," but maybe I'm just being lazy, and I should walk more. These PJs are in a very good 'hood, even if the services directly bordering them are sub-par.

I think your point about not lumping all projects together is a very good one. And I'm most convinced by your point that "if the projects were worse, I doubt [the home facing them would] get a price like that."

Posted by: brownlime at September 8, 2009 2:42 PM in response to Last Week's Biggest Sales

I asked "Why would anyone pay that much (1.65 M) to live across the street from PJs (projects)?"

The response was, in part, "I guess there are those who don't like the diversity."

That response missed my point.

I like diversity.

My point is:
PJs are high-crime (even if you haven't been mugged there, they are nevertheless high-crime).
Most PJs (including this one) are architecturally very ugly.
PJs are very often poorly maintained.
The services around PJs are often lower than the population density warrants.

In sum, PJs make poor neighbors.

Posted by: brownlime at September 8, 2009 1:57 PM in response to Last Week's Biggest Sales

Bklyn14 wrote: "Carroll Gardens + Gowanus on fire....gotta be COUGAR related"

What is "COUGAR"?

Posted by: brownlime at September 8, 2009 12:48 PM in response to Last Week's Biggest Sales

Regarding the Douglass Street home... I don't understand.
Why would anyone pay that much to live across the street from PJs (projects)? Could someone explain?

Posted by: brownlime at September 8, 2009 12:43 PM in response to Last Week's Biggest Sales

That corner is just begging for a big TREE!
(The fact that the tree would be over a subway line shouldn't be a problem. There's lots of trees over subway lines, no?)

Posted by: brownlime at September 2, 2009 12:24 PM in response to Calming Traffic at Bergen and Smith

As I'm looking for a new home, I've found that brokers are not a good use or my time. They recommend things that I have already seen on the net, but they refuse to give me all the info that I can get on the net (i.e. all the photos and perhaps the address), as they don't want me to bypass them and go directly to the primary realtor.

I think Johnny gives good advice when he tells you that, when buying, you should consider the legwork to be part of evaluating the relative worth of deals (as well as part of obtaining a good sense of what is available on the market), and that you should do lots of legwork yourself.

I'm skeptical about Ceze's advice that you can depend on a broker for recommendations. I've heard that brokers sometimes steer you to people with whom they have relationships, and that they're not always thinking of your your best interests.

Posted by: brownlime at August 31, 2009 12:33 PM in response to Brokers Useful when Buying?

Mr. BHO,
Why do you always write "***Bid half off peak comps***"? What does it mean?

Posted by: brownlime at August 26, 2009 6:20 PM in response to Reno Prices Down?

This new "rental roundup" feature is cool.
I'm always curious about the rental markets, but too lazy to do the legwork. Thanks, Brownstoner!

Posted by: brownlime at August 24, 2009 11:42 AM in response to Rental Picks: Prospect Heights

Very interesting and informative. I particularly liked the part about the history of your front entryway and door. Thanks for sharing!

Posted by: brownlime at August 14, 2009 11:26 AM in response to DIBS Refinishes His Facade

Thanks for the info, Mixicon!

Posted by: brownlime at July 31, 2009 1:46 PM in response to 5-Unit C of O?

Thanks, everyone, for your help.

If you'd care to summarize some of the SRO horror stories that you've seen, Mixicon, I'd be interested in hearing about them.

Posted by: brownlime at July 30, 2009 12:24 PM in response to 5-Unit C of O?

Alan - Thanks for the advice. I'll keep your firm in mind.

Posted by: brownlime at July 29, 2009 4:59 PM in response to Painted Limestone

Thanks, everyone, for the helpful input.
I see WLIW is broadcasting the first 5 episodes starting Aug 3.
And the This Old House website looks pretty good.

Posted by: brownlime at July 29, 2009 11:37 AM in response to This Old House

Thanks a lot for your very helpful comments, daveinbedstuy.

Posted by: brownlime at July 29, 2009 11:16 AM in response to Painted Limestone

Responses to Author's Forum Comments

hannible.....you're a complete moron if you think prices are going back to 1996 levels. More of an uneducated fool than I thought.

An uninhabitable house will not qualify for a mortgage. There have to be functioning bathrooms, kitchens and electricity. You can get certain commercial loans for it if it will be an investment property and you can try Community Preservation Corp as well but not if you plan to occupy it.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 19, 2009 4:06 PM in response to Habitable? Financing? Time-Bomb?

You must get a 203K. As of July, you could do it with only 3.5 percent down -- but that was on a conforming loan and this is more. And yes, you have to live in it. Adam is right, call Wells Fargo, they do a lot of 203K loans. Anyway, sounds like a world-class hassle. Will take one or two years to renovate.

Posted by: mopar at November 19, 2009 5:06 PM in response to Habitable? Financing? Time-Bomb?

Thanks y'all for your helpful advice!
You confirmed what I was thinking and you provided some extra thought-avenues.
Very helpful!

Posted by: brownlime at November 19, 2009 5:25 PM in response to Habitable? Financing? Time-Bomb?

Just be careful if you go the 203k route. It won't cover all the repairs and there is a ton of red tape with them. I've heard and been involved with some horror stories with them. That is why I am for the moment passing on these types of deals.

Posted by: Adam Dahill at November 19, 2009 6:00 PM in response to Habitable? Financing? Time-Bomb?

Thanks Adam.
I'll look into 203k with caution.

Posted by: brownlime at November 19, 2009 6:09 PM in response to Habitable? Financing? Time-Bomb?

I don't think 100k per floor may be a good estimate because you may find a lot of structural work, and for what you say not only you may need to build the inside (water damage is very pervasive, you might find mold everywhere, may end up having to re-do absolutely every wall and every floor) and extensive outside repairs, which can be really expensive.
On the other hand if you need a mortgage and won't find lenders for this place (at a reasonable rate) I guess you'll have to continue looking... if so, remember that a place where you can live while it's being renovated, while painful, may be cheaper overall (you won't have to pay rent while paying mortgage, your insurance will be cheaper if you live in the building etc.)

Posted by: Ray at November 19, 2009 9:35 PM in response to Habitable? Financing? Time-Bomb?

Ray,

Posted by: brownlime at November 19, 2009 10:30 PM in response to Habitable? Financing? Time-Bomb?

From what you're describing, it's priced too high (way too high), unless it's in prime PS. (Your post-reno comps make me think it's not.) Not only will you have the costs of repairs, but also the time and carrying costs while you obtain the necessary permits. If you've never done a substantial renovation, there's a learning curve. Everything may go great, without a hitch, and entirely within budget, but I wouldn't rely on that. Building priced too high, renovation estimates priced too low.

Posted by: vinca at November 20, 2009 12:38 AM in response to Habitable? Financing? Time-Bomb?

Ah what a man of such little faith you are daveinbedsty! I know people like you just over a year ago were saying home prices could never go down in Brooklyn. I know it is hard to swallow your pride and admit being dumb.

Posted by: hannible at November 20, 2009 9:44 AM in response to Habitable? Financing? Time-Bomb?

Posted by: brownlime at November 20, 2009 10:26 AM in response to Habitable? Financing? Time-Bomb?