Leaving Brooklyn For The Burbs

overwrought political correctness gives liberalism a bad name.

Posted by: bklyndoug at September 16, 2009 12:50 PM in response to Cast Iron Fence: We Can Rebuild It

BKNY -

my wife and i were the same as you. she wanted to move, i wanted to stay. that said, i can tell you that the thought and buildup of moving out of bklyn to the burbs is a bigger strain than the reality.

all last summer, while contemplating our move i had trouble sleeping and even thought about walking away from our deposit. i really did not want to go. now that i have been here a year i can see that i wasted a lot of energy and put myself through so much stress for nothing. living in the burbs, while different, is actually quite nice.

we moved to pelham from DUMBO for the schools and the space. i went in with the mindset that the restaurants and the neighbors would probably suck. the former was definitely true. pelham and many other burb towns are culinary wastelands. restaurants used to be a great sourced of enjoyment for us - no more. now we have dinner parties and spend time with friends. just a different brand of fun.

in terms of neighbors, i have been amazed at how great people have been. pelham is filled with what i'll call bklyn "ex-pats". people who had no intention of leaving but for whom space and schools became more important as their families grew. i have actually found that people here are friendlier than they were in bklyn. i think it's because they all realize they are here for a while and so it makes sense to invest in the community and in relationships. bklyn folks, at least in my neighborhood (DUMBO/heights) were more likely to be transient and less involved in stuff. this could also have a lot to do with our kids growing older, which naturally gets you more involved with other parents. whatever the cause, i have been able to build in a year a broader network of good friends than i did in 12 years of living in bklyn. which i never expected.

as evidenced by the fact that i still read bstoner everyday i miss the city a lot (especially the restaurants, the diversity and the energy), and we'll probably move back when the kids are done with high school. that said, the burbs are a great place to raise kids. they have a lot of freedom, more than they did in bklyn. the schools are great. the neighbors wonderful and fun to spend time with. the economics make sense if you are considering private school. we have a yard, a porch and an extra bedroom. and our house is a 5 minute walk from the train, which takes 28 minutes to GCT.

a suggestion - if you are considering the burbs but want to maintain the ties/feel of bklyn look for the following kinds of towns:

- ~ 30 minutes to midtown
- a strong representation of folks who used to live in bklyn. we found that pelham, maplewood, montclair, hastings and irvington had lots of ex-pats. (i'm sure there are others)

towns like bedford and mount kisco are incredibly gorgeous and much less crowded, but were just too far for us.

hope that helps.

Posted by: bklyndoug at August 6, 2009 3:45 PM in response to House of the Day: 439 East 19th Street

11217 -

having just weighed the burbs vs. DP question and going with the burbs (pelham) i can tell you my reasons:

1) NYC public schools just can't be counted on to deliver a quality education from K-12. in NJ and westchester, lots of towns can provide this, and i am not into the idea of $60K after taxes for private school for 2 kids.

2) NYC income tax is close to 3% of your income (on top of your property taxes), which in our case bridged the tax difference (we actually end up tax neutral before considering the potential cost of private school).

3) DP is 45 minutes to midtown, pelham is 28.

4) relatively greater safety for my kids, who can roam my neighborhood freely

5) very similar housing stock in pelham compared to DP, with whole neighborhoods within walking distance of the train

6) a seemingly friendlier vibe (at least to us), and a smaller community

that said, DP has lots to offer including much better restaurants. however, it's all a tradeoff and depends on the value you place on each.

Posted by: bklyndoug at August 5, 2009 3:00 PM in response to House of the Day: 439 East 19th Street

May I be so nosy as to ask why you would want to buy in Victorian Flatbush instead of a close-in suburb like Pelham?

We strongly considered moving to Ditmas back on 2007 but the public schools just don't cut it. If you have school-aged kids, do yourself the favor of looking up in Pelham. We moved there last year after more than a decade in Brooklyn and despite all of my fears about suburban living the only downside has been crappy restaurants. The schools, the houses, the neighbors are incredible. We are walking distance from the train, which takes 27 minutes to get into GCT. Closer than Ditmas!

Anyway, we bought an old victorian house. One thing to consider, besides maintenance, is the cost to heat the damn place. See if you can find out about any insulation work that has been done to the house, and place a premium on houses that have been recently insulated. I wish I had asked that question. Once last winter rolled around, we realized we basically were walking around in ski hats because the house was so cold. This is after paying $1000 per month for electicity and gas. We will be spending around $10K to insulate this summer, but it'll pay back within a few years.

Posted by: bklyndoug at May 7, 2009 2:23 PM in response to Maintaining a Victorian home

adam -

i was about to close in march when my broker told me that the loan limits were going back up to 729 (at the time they were 625). i had gotten killed in the market so i was looking to preserve some rainy day cash, and so the higher limit was appealing. we were able to lock the old rate through to may to protect against the rate creeping up. when the new limits came through the rates remained the same so we went with that. we have not yet closed but we since we were about to do so in march the appraisals and the CEMA are already in place (same lender).

Posted by: bklyndoug at May 4, 2009 12:37 PM in response to Despite Low Interest Rates, Few Refinancings in New York

closing costs were around $5K with the CEMA if I remember correctly.

Posted by: bklyndoug at May 4, 2009 12:33 PM in response to Despite Low Interest Rates, Few Refinancings in New York

Just refi'd my primary on an agency jumbo at 4.875% 30 year fixed with no points. the mortgage is for $729,750 which is the upper bound of the agency conforming level. had no trouble getting it done as we have $1MM in equity in the house per the latest appraisal and excellent credit. i think without this the rates tend to suffer. there were 3 banks that were offering to underwrite - astoria federal, suntrust and fifth third, all of which were found using a mortgage broker (which i highly recommend). did a CEMA with my old lender (Citi) to avoid the mortgage recording tax, also no problem but depends on the lenders in each case.

Posted by: bklyndoug at May 4, 2009 10:26 AM in response to Despite Low Interest Rates, Few Refinancings in New York

I was in your shoes several years ago on Monroe Place in Brooklyn Heights. Decided to go for it but used a small gas grill to limit the charcoal smell. It worked great when I grilled low fat meats like chicken, but when there were burgers on you could see the noxious smoke cloud all the way down the block. Nonetheless, never had a problem with the neighbors as I only did it about 1x/month and offered beers to any neighbors who popped by the check out what was going on. I say try it and gauge the reaction.

Posted by: bklyndoug at April 27, 2009 3:12 PM in response to Front yard grilling etiquette

fsrq -

my comment is based on what i sold my apartment in the eagle warehouse for one year ago. $800 psf for a larger coop apartment in better shape with full skyline views and 10 foot ceilings. these guys are asking over $1K psf in a market which i think we can all agree has been "challenging" since i sold last spring. it will only hurt the seller for this to be priced so out of line with what the market will bear. there is no way this goes close to ask, IMHO.

Posted by: bklyndoug at April 21, 2009 3:09 PM in response to Co-op of the Day: 75 Henry Street

Having sold my own 1800 sq foot coop apartment with a "million dollar view" last year in the same neighborhood for $800 psf, i would put the chance at roughly 0% that these clowns could sell this POS at this price. I'd be surprised in they got more than $1MM. What a joke. These brokers are doing a huge disservice to the owner of this place. It will sit, sit, sit and die a slow and painfully stale death.

Posted by: bklyndoug at April 21, 2009 1:01 PM in response to Co-op of the Day: 75 Henry Street

Widget is a great idea, but I would hide the prior bids until after you have inputted your own appraisal (so as not to be colored by prior responses).

Posted by: bklyndoug at March 31, 2009 1:41 PM in response to House of the Day: 93 2nd Street

Harvey Bernstein is the manager of the Eagle Warehouse. He's been there for probably 10 years, maybe more. He is an effective manager and runs a clean building. His staff is efficient and generally courteous. However, owners in the Eagle either like him or hate him. As part of his gig he gets to sell apartments in the building. Many feel there is an inherent conflict of interest, and I have known a few tenants who felt strong armed into listing with him. RE agents tend to view him with dismay as he is perceived to hold up buyer board packages for sellers who did not list with him. He also is viewed by some as combative and sometimes difficult to work with in his managerial capacity. There was a even an effort last year by a determined band of residents to have him removed (though that never came to pass).

That said, as a former owner I had generally good experiences in working with him. I did not list my place with him when I sold, nor did I feel pressured to. He was efficient at moving my buyer's board package through and was mostly reasonable throughout. He knows more about that building than anyone in the area. He just has a strong personality that must be managed. In sum, he is a pain in the ass, but the kind of guy you'd rather have on your team than not.

Posted by: bklyndoug at March 23, 2009 4:27 PM in response to Co-op of the Day: 28 Old Fulton Street, #5E

if you plan on staining them anyway, then go hemlock. this is not an item that you should expect to see a "return" on.

Posted by: bklyndoug at February 9, 2009 5:17 PM in response to Are cherry doors a good investme

I think it is fair to say that we will see significant declines from here in the NYC area. How much of a decline is up to debate. However, an important point that the articles mentions that folks seem to be overlooking is that the runup in supply in Lehigh Acres has greatly exacerbated the problem. While there have certainly been a number of developments that have come on line in Brooklyn, the net effect on housing stock is nothing close to the runup in Lehigh. In addition, there is no "coop cushion" in Lehigh Acres to mitigate the rush of foreclosures, etc.

Bottom line, while things are grim here and will get signficantly worse, I believe that NYC (and even the close-in burbs) have some structural advantages that should prevent the kind of complete meltdown we are witnessing down south and in other far-flung exurbs where BOTH land and money were in abundant supply.

Posted by: bklyndoug at February 9, 2009 2:32 PM in response to Tales from Florida

SenatorStreet -

You sound like an a*hole. Eman1234 offered up some ideas without much background, and if you read your post you will see that you did refer to cold rooms, which to most folks would indicate a lack of heat.

Your response was to basically diss him. I imagine that is because Eman offered up a consultation in the hopes of getting some business. However, you can't blame the guy for trying, and he did offer up what seemed to me thoughtful suggestions given the circumstances.

Next time try to show some respect to people, especially when you are looking for free advice.

Posted by: bklyndoug at January 14, 2009 2:29 PM in response to Steam Heat-Gurgle, Slosh & Leak

I think this place is great and well-priced. I think characterizing a FSBO as desperation is way off the mark - if they were desperate to unload they would have listed it with a broker like corcoran that likely has a much larger marketing budget and site traffic than the owner does and who could therefore sell it quickly. Probably just has a great web design background and wants to give FSBO a shot before forking over 6% to the man.

Posted by: bklyndoug at October 22, 2008 3:51 PM in response to Condo of the Day: 30 Main Street Loft

We had no problems either. Got a 30-yr fixed at 6.25% in the burbs, though it was locked back in may. FICOs over 720 and putting down over 50%.

What was interesting was the new temporary jumbo limits they set in place ($729,750). At first we didn't see much rate advantage between $400K and the new limit. But we started seeing better rates under the new limit around the time we locked, particularly on ARM products. I think more and more banks will start offering a bit better rate once they get accustomed to it, though it may be that the temporary status of the new limit keeps them from changing their business practices.

Posted by: bklyndoug at July 17, 2008 3:41 PM in response to Who is trying to get a Mortgage and what problems you are facing?

12:21, these "sideliner" posts are so tired. i take from your comments that NYC real estate will just continue to go up. this is the same flawed logic that has led us into this credit crunch. this is the same credit crunch that has undermined some of the more profitable ways in which wall street has generated profits over the past decade, which will greatly affect bonuses next year (not to mention employment levels). prices have to come down at some point to be more in line with real household incomes. the question is when.

Posted by: bklyndoug at March 17, 2008 12:29 PM in response to Overpricing Not Working in Carroll Gardens

2nd place got reduced to 2.7, i guess as of this AM. not much of a chop if you ask me. we went to see it when it came on, it's very nice but still seems overpriced on a psf basis given how narrow it is (they try to sell it as having more usable space given no interior support walls). the bathrooms are super mod but super tiny. it's been on the market for a while now.

Posted by: bklyndoug at March 17, 2008 11:42 AM in response to Overpricing Not Working in Carroll Gardens