where do I live, and do you have any suggestions for the area?

It was a ridiculous discussion, and corner bodega is unhinged. However, your condescending tone rung clear as a bell.

You're not keeping me from anything. The psychology of cheer leading of home prices past traditional income related measures is, and has been, highly destructive. You flipped a condo and got a brownstone. Now you think the illusion is real, and your brownstone is worth what you paid. Truth is, the liquidity sloshing around the housing market pushed up your appraised value, not anything tangible.

In re Bed Stuy: great architecture in areas. Not much transit. Still not cool at night for a lawyer in a suit.

Posted by: actually works in finance at August 24, 2009 10:01 PM in response to Bed-Stuy: 'Experiencing a Little Bit of a Depression'?

DIBS, above is why you sound like a pretentious dick. Thanks for the offer kensington, but I'll pass.

Posted by: actually works in finance at August 24, 2009 9:37 PM in response to Bed-Stuy: 'Experiencing a Little Bit of a Depression'?

Ever buy a table at Christie's for $9,000, cornerbodega?? No, I suspect you've never been to Christies. That kind of expensive furniture.

It's labelled underneath and was made in NY in 1772-1775. You need to learn to appreciate the finer things in life.

You stay in contact with me here more often and maybe it'll rub off on you.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 31, 2009 6:47 PM

Posted by: actually works in finance at August 24, 2009 9:34 PM in response to Bed-Stuy: 'Experiencing a Little Bit of a Depression'?

You don't have attorneys at your fund? No outside counsel? No attorneys that used to be analysts/traders or vice-versa?

Granted the name was chosen back during the crash, and if I had the patience I would create a new name. It was chosen for a specific conversation, and I have not changed it.

Today's Babs example was more pretext than anything. I am rarely on this site during the day, and only witness the cheer leading when I check it at night. I believe that the psychology of your cheer leading, that of someone who, though a great deal of circumstance, was at the right place and time in real estate, is an impediment to the rational prices in the housing market. And at times your "I make a lot of money and you don't" (e.g., rattling off the antiques in your multiple homes) meme is sickening.

Posted by: actually works in finance at August 24, 2009 8:24 PM in response to Bed-Stuy: 'Experiencing a Little Bit of a Depression'?

Bxgrl,

I made a snarky comment and he called me an A__h___. After that I think I can take a swipe or two. Dave is probably a nice guy, but he is a beneficiary of the government subsidized real estate bubble machine. He regularly defends artificially high real estate prices. And it grates me when the lucky, with respect to timing, claim to be experts. Fooled by Randomness by Nassim Taleb explores this cognitive error.

Again, nice guy, not an expert, who also has a a conflict of interest.

"I don't ask my barber if I need a hair cut." WB

Posted by: actually works in finance at August 24, 2009 6:28 PM in response to Bed-Stuy: 'Experiencing a Little Bit of a Depression'?

Dave,

I said you were talking your book, which you are. And that prices generally don't reflect the change in the economy.

I won't be in the market for some time, I could really care less. However, your constant drum-beat for high RE prices is obnoxious. If you're so neutral, then why was Bab's purchase in bed sty an important part of your comment? What value did it add?

Oh, and I live on the other side of Atlantic.

"I could have paid more to be elswhere[sic]." Really now? you grace us with your gilded presence. People like you make me uncomfortable with the amount of money I make.

Posted by: actually works in finance at August 24, 2009 5:24 PM in response to Bed-Stuy: 'Experiencing a Little Bit of a Depression'?

Bxgrl,

Then Dave should defend his neighborhood, not his "investment." The whole bubble started when, incentivized by government backed programs and institutions, homes became more than places where you sleep, shower, and put your stuff. Babs and all the other smirking cheerleaders got filthy rich off of the massive delusion of over leveraged homeowners. Trying to keep the bubble inflated because your little corner is different is false.

Dave,

You don't believe those 4 RE "investments" color your comments on this site?

By way of example, Montrose Morris is all about the neighborhood and nothing about the price. That is the kind of information I want. Dave's "if you were as smart as me you'd buy now too" bs is contemptible.

Posted by: actually works in finance at August 24, 2009 5:08 PM in response to Bed-Stuy: 'Experiencing a Little Bit of a Depression'?

Bxgrl,

Not everyone. After nearly a decade of residents I can say with sincerity: I love Brooklyn. And as soon as I can put together a down payment, I'll likely find something to buy. If, that is, the relationship between incomes and home values corrects. I am young and make a healthy wage. I hope it works out.

However,the persistent defense of multi-million dollar brownstones is absurd. In the past decade, people lived and bought beyond their means. This includes bed stuy (see the foreclosures). Current prices are aberrations, holdovers of a time, economy, and lending environment that no longer exists. For dave to pathologically defend them is a testament to his bias.

Defend Brookly to the death, but don't defend price points.

Posted by: actually works in finance at August 24, 2009 4:06 PM in response to Bed-Stuy: 'Experiencing a Little Bit of a Depression'?

Dave,

Yes, I understood the sentence. Subtext - the good properties don't trade, but last time they did a certain special someone expressed their confidence in Bed Stuy in the form of a mansion purchase (psst - I hear Goldman is in the crowd using wedbush as their give up buying heavy).

I'm sick, which is why I am online at this hour (damn HR), so forgive the tone. However, I see you on this site 9-5 telling everyone who'll listen how happy you are to have the majority of your net worth tied up in Brooklyn real estate. If you weren't so deeply invested in Brooklyn real estate, and were all cash, would you purchase right now? I bet you'd wait till someone had to hit your, much lower, bid.

But hey, gotta keep selling the dream that you already bought.

- pause for your "I have so much money I don't care" response.

Posted by: actually works in finance at August 24, 2009 3:25 PM in response to Bed-Stuy: 'Experiencing a Little Bit of a Depression'?

"There haven't been any on the market since those two limestones on the 400 block of Stuyvesant sold...one to Babs Corcoran."

Yeah, yeah. Keep talking your book DIBS. Maybe if you and Babs clap loud enough Tinkerbell will come back to life.

Posted by: actually works in finance at August 24, 2009 1:29 PM in response to Bed-Stuy: 'Experiencing a Little Bit of a Depression'?

Floetrol for latex. Thinner for oil. Multiple coats. Sand between coats. Also, use high quality paint (I like ben moore), a very expensive brush for latex. Keep it wet and don't touch back into areas where you painted. Think of it as the brush squeegeeing on the paint, and that you need to control the thickness so there are no drips and it covers without re-touching. The additive won't help if the paint films and you re-touch.

Also, prep is 80% of the finish. Clean well, sand, wipe down, and prevent dust. Make sure you have a halogen lamp so you can see what you're doing.

It takes years of painting doors to perfect. I was on my way until I finished school and joined the white collar set. My uncle can make paneled doors look like glass. I miss it sometimes. Painting is an honest and rewarding trade.

Posted by: actually works in finance at July 15, 2009 10:53 PM in response to No brush strokes when painting..

I would like to meet the person that bid 4.33 million and sell him or her things I find on the sidewalk.

Posted by: actually works in finance at May 26, 2009 10:31 PM in response to House of the Day: 243 Kane Street

"And then people will figure out how to make it improve."

So, 11217, your entire outlook is based on blind optimism. Or, more succinctly, nothing at all.

Things will get worse. The statistics of the great depression were calculated differently, applied to a different reality, and do not apply to our day. If you really want to understand the predicament we are in, do the grunt(statistical) work. More women in the workforce, more underemployed, more temporary and contract workers. Unemployment is far worse than it looks. Further, The government is encouraging the exact behavior that got us in trouble: foolish lending.

Not that the OP is correct. But you, sir or madam, are not.

Posted by: actually works in finance at February 5, 2009 10:42 PM in response to Quote of the Day

Forgive me for not attempting a nuanced comment, but taking money away from people that earned it and giving it to someone who didn't is stealing. But it's the government, so you'd have a better chance with a mugger on a dark street. Further, rewarding poor financial decision making is anti-evolutionary.

Posted by: actually works in finance at January 26, 2009 8:34 PM in response to Quote of the Day

I stand corrected Brooklyn chicken. I just finished "lush life," I've never actually read "Clockers."

Posted by: actually works in finance at January 9, 2009 9:11 PM in response to High Hopes for Hoyt Street?

I walked by there on daylight one Saturday, I would rather walk though Detroit at midnight. It is like Hamsperdam in the wire. Richard Price wrote "clockers" about those projects.

Posted by: actually works in finance at January 9, 2009 8:13 PM in response to High Hopes for Hoyt Street?

This article is a notable exception to the above rule:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/04/opinion/04lewiseinhorn.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print

Posted by: actually works in finance at January 4, 2009 10:49 AM in response to The sale on Brooklyn has been cancelled

These are the same forecasters that were rosy in Q1 2007.

http://clusterstock.alleyinsider.com/2009/1/economists-who-blew-it-agree-prosperity-is-just-around-corner

Real Estate drove this crash, and will not return to the irrational prices seen in the last few years for some time. Likely not till income inflation rationally drives prices up to levels of the last few years. . . in 2020.

Usually, business stories in the NYT might as well be written on Hello Kitty letterhead.

Posted by: actually works in finance at January 3, 2009 1:43 PM in response to The sale on Brooklyn has been cancelled

fsrg,

I do get bonus, not as much as when I was at the bank, just not a high percentage of my overall comp.

I am glad that you know how much I make. I am very good at what I do.

Posted by: actually works in finance at December 31, 2008 3:38 PM in response to 2009 Predictions and Resolutions?

Dave,

How long has Japan been down?

I suppose on a long enough time line we could again have a robust public investment banking system that supports hundreds of thousands of high paying jobs. However, that will not be in the next 5 years. Add to that the reality that the last boom was completely illusory and not "robust" in the post WWII industrial juggernaut way.

I think it was Michael Lewis in his excellent Portfolio article "The End" who said approximately "Meridith Whitney's call was damaging not because it said that bankers were greedy, it was damaging because it proved that bankers were stupid and incompetent to manage their own money, much less the public's money."

Posted by: actually works in finance at December 31, 2008 3:20 PM in response to 2009 Predictions and Resolutions?

Dave,

I know that it is said all the time and is wrong 90% of the time, but this time is different. This is the end of publicly held investment banks and the riches that attended their assent. I should know, I worked for one of them before it failed in spectacular fashion. Now, I can get a toaster when I open a Goldman Sachs free checking account. The internet bubble was a disease of the skin, this crisis struck the heart of the American banking system. There are cycles and there are sea changes, this is a meteor hitting the sea and evaporating the water.

Posted by: actually works in finance at December 31, 2008 2:57 PM in response to 2009 Predictions and Resolutions?

bayridgegirl,

I don't have the energy to explain the bonus system to non-wall streeters. I'm a regulatory lawyer anyway, the bonus train doesn't stop at my station.

If unemployment reaches 10% *for those actively seeking work* things will be quite dire, and humility will return. Things will get hard. As for wall street, like the Boss said about factory jobs in Jersey: "these jobs are going son, and they ain't coming back."

Posted by: actually works in finance at December 31, 2008 2:35 PM in response to 2009 Predictions and Resolutions?

Humility will creep back into the American lexicon.

Posted by: actually works in finance at December 31, 2008 2:00 PM in response to 2009 Predictions and Resolutions?

Pay a lawyer for a legal opinion. You should call the NY state insurance office, but do you want to gamble that the person on the phone has no clue what they are talking about? It is important, pay a lawyer. If you don't you might be very sorry.

Posted by: actually works in finance at December 28, 2008 7:14 PM in response to House's title not clear, can the bank close

I am tired of fielding the "what is going on with the market" call from my family and friends. Thanksgiving should be a lot of that. My stock answer is "I recommend a diversified portfolio of canned food and shotgun shells."

Posted by: actually works in finance at November 21, 2008 7:19 AM in response to timber..watch out below

you should wait because missing the absolute bottom in real estate is not nearly as painful as catching a falling knife. This is the greatest financial crisis since the great depression, and the effects will not be known for years. In 1929, after the crash, things shambled along for a few months and then fell out of bed in 1930.

Our market, real estate and otherwise, just caught a left hand jab square on the nose. We're in the dizzy handful of seconds after the punch is landed and before resisters as painful. That, and there may be an uppercut in the offing. Wait it out, what you might lose in being too late pales in comparison with what you might lose in being way too early.

Posted by: actually works in finance at November 16, 2008 12:09 PM in response to Williamsburg Edge v. Toren (Downtown brooklyn)

You should be able to rent in both in a few months.

Real estate does not bottom like equities. It isn't like there will be one day where everyone screams "BOTTOM" and there is a 20% rip in real estate prices. If you are actually considering buying, because to be honest you sound like a broker, do so in a year or more when the lay of the land is more clear. Forced sellers and buyers, along with a few who are indifferent to price, are the only ones moving in this market. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a fool, crook, or both.

Posted by: actually works in finance at November 16, 2008 8:41 AM in response to Williamsburg Edge v. Toren (Downtown brooklyn)

Queenie, great list. I look forward to checking them out.

Bessie, Bergan Bagels has already become a part of my daily life. Mitch's looks a little schizophrenic: half fine dining, and half sandwich shop. However, I am sure to stop in for a sandwich and a walk around at least.

G man, I expected that some kind of arcane rule was putting me in the 78th. Not that I mind being so close to the precinct, armed men and women paid by the state are generally comforting to a guy in a suit.

Thank you all for your comments.

Posted by: actually works in finance at November 15, 2008 8:26 AM in response to where do I live, and do you have any suggestions for the area?

Thank you for your comment and link vinca. Your map puts my building in the 78th precinct. I have lived in brooklyn before, in Brooklyn Heights, and am now returning after a less than enjoyable year in Manhattan. I know and love the park, gardens, and library. I visited the park often while living in Brooklyn Heights. Their proximity caused me to pull the trigger on the apartment I now inhabit. I enjoy cooking a great deal and look forward to exploring the greenmarket you mentioned.

As for places to avoid, I was more thinking about establishments. I have decent spidey-senses, and honed my situational awareness skills though several years of working behind a bar during school. I thank you, however, for your concern.

Posted by: actually works in finance at November 12, 2008 10:54 PM in response to where do I live, and do you have any suggestions for the area?

So, Brooklyn is Home, what you are telling me is that the police precinct at 65 6th Avenue, Brooklyn, NY, 11217 that states that "The 78 Precinct is located in the Park Slope section of Brooklyn South" on their website does not service the block on which it parks its police cars?

78th Precinct:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/precincts/precinct_078.shtml

see also:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/precinct_maps/precinct_maps.shtml

There is an anomaly in the precinct that runs along 6th ave from flatbush, and cuts back to flatbush at pacific.

And, as my moniker indicates, I work in finance, so the last few months have not been a leisurely apartment search.

Your snarky condescension, however, has been noted for the record.

Posted by: actually works in finance at November 12, 2008 8:52 PM in response to where do I live, and do you have any suggestions for the area?

I live across from the 78th precinct on 6th ave between began and dean. The 78th precinct, on its website, claims to be in park slope, but it is on the wrong side of Flatbush. Am I in Prospect Heights? Am I in North Slope?

I just say that I live by the Atlantic yards project. I would, however, appreciate any clarity the brownstoner community can offer.

Posted by: actually works in finance at November 10, 2008 9:36 PM in response to Closing Bell: Where Does Park Slope End?

As an aside,
You should cut the trees away from the roof or it will mildew and pit the roofing tiles. The humid micro-climate created by close hugging trees takes about five years off off the lifespan of the roof.

Posted by: actually works in finance at October 24, 2008 7:09 AM in response to Chimney Liner, yes or no

Agreed pierre. I think Miss Muffett has her priorities straight, now the rest of the country just needs to learn this lesson.

Posted by: actually works in finance at October 9, 2008 10:19 PM in response to Dow Closes Down 679 Points

Miss Muffett,

If I could pick stocks I wouldn't be a poor. All my wreath is in persistence. Save 10 percent of your income (no foolin, 10% post tax)and you'll never be destitute. Don't have any debt that is not associated with a home or income producing education (e.g., 50$ sweater). And invest in your family, in time and in effort. A brownstone can't love you.

Posted by: actually works in finance at October 9, 2008 9:43 PM in response to Dow Closes Down 679 Points

Inigo,

I work in Market Reg., a chronically underfunded corner of the financial world that never saw a dime of the CDO money, so hang your blame elsewhere.

And two things: 1)I said "overpriced real estate"; and 2) your argument that our nation was always based on real estate and consumerism is patently false.

We were once and industrial and agricultural superpower that supported a highly educated and mobile middle class. We are now an aristocratic Banana Republic that prints money to try and solve its budgetary problems. China is our Shylock. We have traded on our creditworthiness for almost two generations, but now the emperor is revealed as having no clothes.

The party is over.

Posted by: actually works in finance at October 9, 2008 9:22 PM in response to Dow Closes Down 679 Points

I watched the free fall in real time. There will likely be faint rallies that the smart money will sell in to (two sides to every trade). Then a painful realization that we are much poorer than we thought, followed by English style ex-empire stoicism.

I hope you like your overpriced real estate properties, and all the other consumer crap that you just had to have, because you just cost us a nation.

Posted by: actually works in finance at October 9, 2008 8:52 PM in response to Dow Closes Down 679 Points

I can't understand why someone would become a co-op shareholder. It is a tremendously delicate legal structure with nearly certain conflict between shareholders. I would never put hundreds of thousands of dollars in an investment that could be decimated by one other investor losing their job. Also, co-op boards always feel a little like a soviet-style collective board. "Are you dedicated to 'the people' comrade? If not, we have ways of making your life miserable"

Posted by: actually works in finance at October 9, 2008 7:11 AM in response to Quote of the Day

A freedom of collective recklessness. The consumer culture, and correspondent Real Estate culture, have ruined our economy. The Dutch bought Manhattan for beads, and now we have sold the whole country for trinkets and McMansions. It is a shame that wallowing self-love brought down a once great republic. Throw a party, do some blow, the Russians are at the bunker door.

Posted by: actually works in finance at September 29, 2008 9:42 PM in response to Quote of the Day

The Bill is aimed at staving off a financial collapse, not stimulating the economy. Also, one in seven exchange listed stocks are on the 'no short' list. The SEC effectively outlawed frowning. Volume is down because Hedge funds can't hedge or put on option plays without shorts. Anyone buying now is effectively 'naked long,' which, regardless of reality, feels like a sucker play. Hong Kong tanked, the rest treaded water. The government is dumping newly printed cash into the market, and market players are realizing that maybe the money that they are clutching isn't worth as much anymore. Today is not even the end of the beginning.

Posted by: actually works in finance at September 29, 2008 7:10 AM in response to WAMU Ka-Boom!!!!!

Next week should be interesting. I hear (from Dealbreaker, I think) that Hank and Ben are going to shoot money out of helicopters with those cannons that are used to shoot t-shirts into stadiums.

Things will get worse. I hope you all like Bruce Springsteen, because the USA is going to be like "downbound train" for the next two years at least. A little snippit from "downbound train:"

I had a job, I had a girl
I had something going mister in this world
I got laid off down at the lumber yard
Our love went bad, times got hard
Now I work down at the carwash
Where all it ever does is rain
Don't you feel like you're a rider on a downbound train?

Posted by: actually works in finance at September 27, 2008 8:46 PM in response to WAMU Ka-Boom!!!!!

Watching real estate types talk about finance is like watching children talk about foreign policy.

Finance people buy things with bonus, and leverage the shit out of themselves because that is how they generally do business. Hate to break it to you (and them), but there aren't going to be bonuses this year. That is, if you are not one of the 50-70K that are out of work. Many of the Bear Stearns employees we were offered to stay on for a number of months to "transition" with transition dates ending about now. Those layoffs have yet to hit the numbers. Also, hiring freezes, stepped up performance firings, and other lagging layoffs have yet to hit the numbers, if they ever will.

No more Merrill Lynch MDs (Managing Directors) buying a six pack of condos for his NYU freshman daughter. This is a long way from over. Those that still have jobs in finance will start to think about how long it takes to make a million dollars before they sign on the dotted line for a 2br in bed-sty.

As to the poker aspect of buying and selling homes: this is not the homestead that you made from sod on the wild prairie. Most of the owners on this board bought with investment in mind. The market is going against them and now they want to pretend that is all about their "home." It can't be a casino when you are up and a homestead when you are down. I'll exact as much pain in purchasing on a seller as possible, because they would have done the same to me two years ago. The champagne is warm, the coffee is cold, and the real estate party is over.

Posted by: actually works in finance at September 21, 2008 9:44 AM in response to Wall Street Reorg: Impact on Real Estate?