BACK YARD BAR NOISE - SOLUTIONS

What I like about Cherry Tree is from the first time they opened they've made efforts to work with the community and improve itself. Sure, it's not necessarily my crowd but I respect the fact that they don't keep the back open throughout the night unlike 4th avenue pub.

Also, when they first opened, the back was a bit charmless and the music inside was horrible and badly EQ'd (real ear piercer). Now the back is amazing and the mix isn't painful.

I liked Mule somewhat but as someone who lives and dies by his coffee, it wasn't anything that kept me away from Duncan Donuts. And also, what is it about people in coffee shops who set up camp like it were there office? Staying three hours for the price of a cup of coffee. Talk about killing a small business.

Anyway, I think Cherry Tree will make good. Now if they could only take over 4th Avenue Pub.

re: "What they got in return was a lot of "noise complaint" calls, cigarette butt violations in the garden and B.S. Good for them that they moved on. Hopefully Cherry Tree will be able to stand up to the people that hold this stretch hostage."

Who's holding who hostage? I take it you don't have a bar's backyard "beer garden" facing yours. I live about 100' from 4th Avenue Pubs Beer Garden and the contempt they show for the surrounding neighbors is unbelievable. We can't sleep with our windows open; every good day sounds like a party till 2-3 am; forget about children getting to sleep; etc.

I've lived here for over ten years and the backyard was the only refuge you have from the noise of the City. 4th Avenue Pub has ruined and thumbs their nose at trying work with the neighborhood. One of my neighbors who lived on 4th Avenue moved out with his wife and kid because he coudn't take the noise anymore. Tell me how this improves a neighborhood. It's okay for all of you who don't have to listen to loud drunks every single night it's nice out. Or have to work in the morning. Or have to put a child to sleep. The surrounding people are not typical NIMBY folk but old people, cihldren, folks who have to work in the morning. THe effect of backyard bars is far reaching.

Cherry Tree had the decency to limit their hours and reduce the noise. 4th Avenue Pub is just greedy little dive that couldn't give a rats ass about its neighbors. It will go down.

Posted by: TNails at April 25, 2008 7:13 PM in response to StreetLevel: Cherry Tree Gets Behind the Mule

What I like about Cherry Tree is from the first time they opened they've made efforts to work with the community and improve itself. Sure, it's not necessarily my crowd but I respect the fact that they don't keep the back open throughout the night unlike 4th avenue pub.

Also, when they first opened, the back was a bit charmless and the music inside was horrible and badly EQ'd (real ear piercer). Now the back is amazing and the mix isn't painful.

I liked Mule somewhat but as someone who lives and dies by his coffee, it wasn't anything that kept me away from Duncan Donuts. And also, what is it about people in coffee shops who set up camp like it were there office? Staying three hours for the price of a cup of coffee. Talk about killing a small business.

Anyway, I think Cherry Tree will make good. Now if they could only take over 4th Avenue Pub.

re: "What they got in return was a lot of "noise complaint" calls, cigarette butt violations in the garden and B.S. Good for them that they moved on. Hopefully Cherry Tree will be able to stand up to the people that hold this stretch hostage."

Who's holding who hostage? I take it you don't have a bar's backyard "beer garden" facing yours. I live about 100' from 4th Avenue Pubs Beer Garden and the contempt they show for the surrounding neighbors is unbelievable. We can't sleep with our windows open; every good day sounds like a party till 2-3 am; forget about children getting to sleep; etc.

I've lived here for over ten years and the backyard was the only refuge you have from the noise of the City. 4th Avenue Pub has ruined and thumbs their nose at trying work with the neighborhood. One of my neighbors who lived on 4th Avenue moved out with his wife and kid because he coudn't take the noise anymore. Tell me how this improves a neighborhood. It's okay for all of you who don't have to listen to loud drunks every single night it's nice out. Or have to work in the morning. Or have to put a child to sleep. The surrounding people are not typical NIMBY folk but old people, cihldren, folks who have to work in the morning. THe effect of backyard bars is far reaching.

Cherry Tree had the decency to limit their hours and reduce the noise. 4th Avenue Pub is just greedy little dive that couldn't give a rats ass about its neighbors. It will go down.

Posted by: TNails at April 25, 2008 7:13 PM in response to StreetLevel: Cherry Tree Gets Behind the Mule

No. Vigilante do. Avoid them. Call On Time Plumbing. No estimate. Fast and good.

Posted by: TNails at April 25, 2008 10:41 PM in response to Plumbing Estimate Fee

Thanks for all the comments.
re: DEP

Concerning the DEP, they sent me a form to arrange a "metering" of the noise. But the form automatically discounts any noise from a bar that is not music. It says all non-music noise is a police matter.

Several neighbors surrounding the bar have filed complaints to both the 84th and the DEP. Nothing.

When one of our neighbors approached the owner in person at his bar, he had him thrown out by his bouncer. That neighbor has since moved after he had a kid. The noise kept the baby up all night.

5:26
As much as I love the new businesses on the block, this is the only when that shows so little respect. His incentive to limit the hours is low since it's the beer garden was the only thing that saved his business from going under. Until he opened it, the place was pretty slow.

The owner is well aware of the multitude of complaints filed against (and I'm sure the DEP's catch 22 and the 84th's hands off attitude).

My only demands would be that he limit the beer gardens hours of operation to say, 10pm during the week 11pm on the weekends. Cherry Tree did that and maintain a good relations with the neighbors. A bar opening on your block is one thing, holding a party in virtually your backyard every night shows a complete lack of concern or no common sense, neither of which I have much empathy for.

Anyway, it looks like I'll try the community board, liquor license, petition and councilman route.

Posted by: TNails at April 27, 2008 11:19 PM in response to BACK YARD BAR NOISE - SOLUTIONS

Ask if the estimate price gets deducted from your final bill. I still find giving estimates are part of the cost of doing business. I work free-lance as well and in my business, I could never charge for putting together a bid, contracts that far exceed the average plumbing visit. And an estimate is essentially of bid for work.

I've hired loads of contractors for various parts of my house and none except a plumber charged for an estimate. Yeah it costs to give in estimate but I also think it cost more in lost business.

Posted by: TNails at April 27, 2008 11:29 PM in response to Plumbing Estimate Fee

Well. The honey approach was a complete failure. The proprietor is nice and full of "yes's and no problem" patter. And sure enough the problem doesn't go away. I truly believe the police are on the take, considering the hundreds of complaints against this bar.

So we're going the official route. As far as I'm concerned, I don't care if he gets fined and shut down. His total lack of respect for the people who live here warrants nothing less.

The problem with my requests is that he loses money by obliging them.

So we've organized a group and plan to attend next week's council meeting with the 84th .

Overall, I think a citywide initiative should be brought about exposing the weaknesses, loopholes and ineffectiveness of BBergs noise initiatives.

More on this later. Will keep all posted.

Posted by: TNails at June 14, 2008 4:09 PM in response to BACK YARD BAR NOISE - SOLUTIONS

I don't think so. In general, I find Vigilante expensive but responsive - so if you have an emergency and can't find anyone else, they are good. But I don't use them for regular jobs because they were ultimately too expensive - they always found more things that "needed" doing, even when just doing annual boiler maintenance.

I've been using Larry Harrington as a plumber, though I've been fortunate enough not to need him for the last year or so! Here are his numbers.

work 718-438-1604
mobile 347-992-2183

Good luck!

Posted by: Jen KG at April 26, 2008 10:37 AM in response to Plumbing Estimate Fee

It's becoming more the norm. These guys have operating expenses to cover and they could be out on a service call making money rather than giving you a free estimate. All contractors drive and with gas at $4 a gallon, they don't want to drive that big van anywhere for free (don't get me started on the parking tickets). It's a tough situation, and I know it's frustrating but try and see it from the contractors perspective as well.

Posted by: Bklyn Fire Alarm Guy at April 26, 2008 10:41 AM in response to Plumbing Estimate Fee

Ask if the estimate price gets deducted from your final bill. I still find giving estimates are part of the cost of doing business. I work free-lance as well and in my business, I could never charge for putting together a bid, contracts that far exceed the average plumbing visit. And an estimate is essentially of bid for work.

I've hired loads of contractors for various parts of my house and none except a plumber charged for an estimate. Yeah it costs to give in estimate but I also think it cost more in lost business.

Posted by: TNails at April 27, 2008 11:29 PM in response to Plumbing Estimate Fee

I would second the advice "avoid Vigilante". We hired them to fix a couple of small issues in our place. Long story short -they did not fix the problems (at all), which wasn't evident until a couple of days after they finished; they tried to charge us an staggeringly astronomical amount (way off their estimate)for roughly 30 minutes of work , citing a chart they had with them (we protested, they capitulated and we agreed on 1/4 of that amount!); their manager did not refund what we did pay when their work turned out to be shoddy. Gateway and Parkset have been pretty positive experiences for us.

Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 11:59 AM in response to Plumbing Estimate Fee

TNails, your request seems so fair that I don't understand why you aren't going to at least try to talk to the guy.

I know you're frustrated, but there is a big difference between going down there, perhaps in a huff, probably when the noise is happening and tensions are high, and getting tossed by a bouncer and finding this guy during the day when there is no noise.

He will get shut down if he doesn't accommodate his neighbors, even if it takes awhile. You are doing him a favor by making it easy for him to accommodate you.

Serious. Talking to him directly in the absence of any noise might save you a lot of effort. Good luck!

Posted by: vanburenproud at April 28, 2008 3:07 PM in response to BACK YARD BAR NOISE - SOLUTIONS

Definitely contact the State Liquor authority and see if they have a permit for backyard and also see if they are violating any rules with Dept of buildings etc. I have heard several people complain about that same bar so its better to get a group of people behind you - power in numbers you know?

Posted by: guest at May 9, 2008 3:31 PM in response to BACK YARD BAR NOISE - SOLUTIONS

I don't live in the city but I have the same issue upstate. Definitely see if they have an outside approved area with the state liquor authority. Speak to your other neighbors and start a petition. I did this and was amazed how many people were affected by the noise but didn't want to speak up. In my small town, I went to city council meeting every week, talked to them, got them familiar with me to realize I wasn't some nut who wanted complete quiet. My experience is don't contact the owner, deal with it in other ways. Good Luck!

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 9:50 PM in response to BACK YARD BAR NOISE - SOLUTIONS

I'm posting to this forum because I was searching the net regarding this issue and felt since
this is also a NYC issue, it would be a good idea to present my comment here also.
I live in the East Village and this has been an ongoing problem here for years now.
The police and government seem to want do the very least, if not absolutely nothing, to tackle
problem noise offenders, be they pedestrians (partiers) or bars. Residents are given the lowest priority over
other interests, like bar owners. The only explanation seems to be that the people who are supposed
to enforce the residents interests are being paid off. The City Council passed a so called "noise"
law that did almost nothing to address the biggest sources of noise generated in the city:
1) unnecessary noise caused by pedestrians (partiers) or bar patrons after 10PM, 2) loud motorcycles
with noise amplifiers, 3) garbage trucks, and 4) cars esp. taxi cabs honking unnecessarily.
The problem was also exacerbated because the NYS Liquor Authority under the Pataki administration
"illegally" granted liquor licenses at the drop of a hat. They're not supposed to grant a liquor
license if a bar is within 500 feet of another bar, yet under Pataki, they granted at least 3 liquor
licenses on my block within 500 feet of 2 already existing bars, creating 5 bars less than 500 feet
of each other. (There are literally 3 bars lined up right next to each other, 1 across the street of
these 3 and another 1 skips a building but is lined up on the same side as the first 3 bars.)
Where is the SLA here? They should be taking back these "excess" liquor licenses, starting with the
worst offending bars.

I personally think an organized effort citywide by residents who share similar views regarding
unnecessary noise, is the only way to get something to happen here.
A "stink" needs to be made with the City Council, NYS SLA, and the community boards.
Question is: how does one get it off the ground?

Posted by: markh at June 1, 2008 12:47 AM in response to BACK YARD BAR NOISE - SOLUTIONS

Well. The honey approach was a complete failure. The proprietor is nice and full of "yes's and no problem" patter. And sure enough the problem doesn't go away. I truly believe the police are on the take, considering the hundreds of complaints against this bar.

So we're going the official route. As far as I'm concerned, I don't care if he gets fined and shut down. His total lack of respect for the people who live here warrants nothing less.

The problem with my requests is that he loses money by obliging them.

So we've organized a group and plan to attend next week's council meeting with the 84th .

Overall, I think a citywide initiative should be brought about exposing the weaknesses, loopholes and ineffectiveness of BBergs noise initiatives.

More on this later. Will keep all posted.

Posted by: TNails at June 14, 2008 4:09 PM in response to BACK YARD BAR NOISE - SOLUTIONS