I agree with BHO regarding the fact that the entire Tri-State market is interdependent.

Several months ago, I backed out of a new-construction condo in Greenpoint (I couldn't afford a brownstone), and made the decision to move to Nyack, NY -- as a very happy renter (for the time being).

The commute to midtown is 70 minutes door-to-door, which is not great, but it's tolerable. I save a ton on NYC income taxes. I have more space than I know what to do with. The town is charming and peaceful, but the best part is that it has a thriving restaurant / bar scene, all within walking distance.

I might end up buying something up here. Although I still check this site once in a while to keep up to date. Anyway, the point is that many people in NYC area move to/from the City and back, as their desires, resources, and prices dictate. That is: prices in the "burbs" affect the prices in the city, and vice versa.

Posted by: Paul C at June 30, 2009 1:42 PM in response to 215 Gates Sells...For the Fifth Time in Five Years

edthmassey - right on. I would much rather have my car stolen, than have my wife (or me) killed in a high speed car chase attempting to apprehend the thief.

Manhattan Ave. is precarious driving under normal conditions, so any chase is ill-considered at best. Plus, where is the guy going to go, kind of a dead-end.

This was reported in the Post and Daily News, and covered here:

http://greenpointers.blogspot.com/2009/04/police-activity-on-manhattan-avenue.html

Posted by: Paul C at April 30, 2009 2:28 PM in response to Closing Bell: Car Chase Ends Badly in Greenpoint

This happened one block away from the condo where I was in contract last year (and got out of). I still hang out over there sometimes, and actually get my haircut at a place on the corner where this woman was hit. Scary, scary stuff.

Knowing the amount of pedestrians on Manhattan Ave, one wonders about the wisdom of a car chase.

Anyway, I hope the perpetrator gets put away for at least 20 years.

Posted by: Paul C at April 28, 2009 5:15 PM in response to Closing Bell: Car Chase Ends Badly in Greenpoint

McKenzie - How bad was the commute via 9W-Palisades-GWB? I have considered that option, if the TZB sucks too much.

By the way, I tend to get into work around 10 am, so I am hoping the traffic will be more tolerable compared to getting in by 9.

Posted by: Paul C at April 21, 2009 12:46 PM in response to Open Thread

The India-nipple video was awesome.

And I agree with Rob about Coney Island. Though wine bars are cool too.

We rented a 2 BR duplex in Nyack, which seem to be in the range of $2,000 - $2,300 per month. We have 2 full baths, plus an extra half bath (I don't know why there are 3 toilets, but why not), a huge balcony overlooking the river, washer/dryer (what a luxury), 2 designated parking spaces, and it's walking distance to more than 20 restaurants, bars, etc. The only question is how hellish will it be to cross the Tappan Zee each morning to get to the MetroNorth. We'll see. I fantasize about buying a boat...

Posted by: Paul C at April 21, 2009 11:42 AM in response to Open Thread

Yeah, I will probably continue to lurk, despite moving upstate. In fact, if the commute is intolerable, I may very well make a hasty retreat back to Brooklyn.

In any event, I still plan to continue to hang out in Brooklyn as much as possible (my friends are mostly in Williamsburg/Greenpoint), and keep my eye on RE market trends.

And of course, I enjoy reading the sometimes-witty banter on this site - where the average IQ seems about 50 points higher than the other RE site I pay atention to.

Posted by: Paul C at April 21, 2009 11:20 AM in response to Open Thread

DIBS - I suspected I'd get a response on my Bed-Stuy comment, which I admit was an exaggeration. Nyack is a 40 min drive to midtown, with no traffic. By mass transit, I think it will take a bit more than 1 hour (door to door), but I am not sure yet. Does it really take only 25 minutes from where you are? What stop, on what train??

Posted by: Paul C at April 21, 2009 11:12 AM in response to Open Thread

I don't know if I qualify as GOTD, since I have posted on Brownstoner on several occasions, though not on Open Thread.

Anyway, I wanted to post my story. In Apr 2008, I signed a contract for a new construction condo in Greenpoint. By the time the unit was finished and ready to move in, the market had collapsed. I decided to bail out on the closing and threaten to sue to recover my 10% deposit (there were some misrepresentations regarding square footage), but the Developer didn't give a crap. Then, about a month after my "default", the Developer decided to negotiate with me. After a few months of haggling they reluctantly dropped the price by 13%. However, I had drawn a "line in the sand" at 15% reduction. Neither side would budge. Facing this impasse, the Sponsor simply refunded my entire deposit. I have to presume they just wanted me out of their hair, so they could sell the unit to someone else. As far as I can tell, it is still on the market, asking a mere $25k more than my "line in the sand" price. I have no idea why they were so stubborn, insisting on chasing the market down, continually refusing to face reality -- and are still busy chasing the market down. Whatever.

During this ordeal, I learned a lot about the risks of new construction, about mortgage contingencies, and about the real estate market in general. I can't believe how ignorant I was a year ago. Today, I have decided to remain a renter for the time being. In fact, my wife and I have decided to rent a place up in Nyack, NY - a little town that, one could argue, is a bit like Brooklyn in terms of it's historic buildings, walkability, and eclectic and diverse population -- but it's a longer commute to midtown (about the same as Bed-Stuy really), and obviously a hell of a lot smaller.

Since I will soon be living "upstate", I guess I should stop lurking on this board. However, I wanted to tell my story before saying goodbye.

Posted by: Paul C at April 21, 2009 11:05 AM in response to Open Thread

GWH - One reason some of us prefer Brooklyn over Manhattan is the lower density (the ability to see trees and sky). If Brooklyn buildings were uniformly 6-8 stories, then it would lose a lot of its appeal.

But you do make an interesting point - proximity to good mass transit options should not be reserved for the wealthy. If all buildings near subway stops were 6-8 stories, then a lot more people could live closer to mass transit (good for some)

However, the city would be a lot less hospitable, Brooklyn would look more like Manhattan.

I personally think the housing shortage is due to the large number of people in this city who are partially funded by outside sources. There are lots of people who make $50k per year, but are able to buy $800k apartments because of a little help from mom and dad. And there are lots of people who keep a nice place in the city, but spend part of the year elsewhere. This really makes it tough for regular folks.

Posted by: Paul C at April 16, 2009 10:57 AM in response to CB1 Says 'Yea' to Rezoning of North Brooklyn

“Park Slope has been an established neighborhood for some time now,” said Michael Slattery, senior vice president at REBNY, noting that new developments did not skew results in these two Brooklyn areas. “There will be continued interest in these neighborhoods."

I don't know about Park Slope, but as for Greenpoint this is flat-out wrong - almost ALL 1Q condo closings in Greenpoint were new developments and, as I mentioned above, these were based on prices that were set in early-to-mid 2008. I personally like the neighborhood, but anyone who thinks prices are going up there (or even holding steady) is not dealing with reality.

Posted by: Paul C at April 8, 2009 12:41 PM in response to REBNY Report Reveals Big Drop in Volume

I can speak to the Greenpoint condo market, since I nearly bought there in 2008 but (fortunately) got out of it. First of all, there were almost no sales in Greenpoint during the first quarter, other than closings on contracts that were signed in early-to-mid 2008.

One sale (in the building I was going to buy in) was a $925,000 penthouse (again, this was a closing on a contract signed in early 2008). With the small volume of closings, this transaction alone might have had a substantial effect on the data.

In any event, info on first-quarter closings on new construction condos reflects a long-ago era in NY real estate, and not useful. Asking prices are down 10-20%, which gives you a more useful indication where sales prices will be heading. In other words, second and third quarters should provide more meaningful info on trends in this tiny segment of the market.

Posted by: Paul C at April 8, 2009 12:32 PM in response to REBNY Report Reveals Big Drop in Volume

I don't care if Lobo's food is not "real" Tex-Mex. I like the food, the drinks, the atmosphere, the back garden area. A relaxed vibe, with unpretentious, unsophisticated comfort food. Nothing wrong with that.

Posted by: Paul C at March 11, 2009 3:43 PM in response to Brooklyn Food & Drink Round-Up

11217 - Huckleberry Bar? Yeah you are going to the wrong places. (In my opinion as a former resident and frequent bar-patron of Williamsburg.)

Many many interesting people there. As for the person who thought Carroll Gardens was in Queens, I bet if you asked the average Manhattan resident, they might think it's in New Jersey. In fact, one time I mentioned I was going to a show in Williamsburg, and my co-worker asked "Virginia?" Yes, a long-term Manhattan resident never heard of Williamsburg.

Anyway, this building is stupid ugly. And, yes, it's a long-ish walk from Kent to Bedford.

Posted by: Paul C at March 11, 2009 3:30 PM in response to Development Watch: 111 Kent Avenue

Deriving comfort from 4Q 08 statistics is like experiencing a tremor before a massive earthquake, and saying "hey, these earthquakes are actually not THAT bad!"

Posted by: Paul C at March 3, 2009 12:54 PM in response to Brownstones, Co-ops Outperformed Condos in Q4

Bxgrl said: "The Republican party is all about keeping power- not doing what is good for the rest of the country."

That sums it up in one sentence.

Another nice summary is watching Jindal gets all whiny about spending public funds on natural-disaster monitoring! (A role that is exceptionally appropriate for government, and would not be taken care of by the private sector). And this guy is from Louisiana, of all places!

The Republicans' disregard for the average American citizen is mind-blowing. Oh, yeah, tax cuts for the rich is THE ANSWER. Just keep giving even more to the super-rich, and taking even more from the middle class, and things will be even more wonderful than they are now! Why not start another war, while we're at it.

Posted by: Paul C at February 26, 2009 11:23 AM in response to Home Sales Falling, Condo & Foreclosure Auctions Rising

Too bad this writer never actually went to look at some of these neighborhoods. Did she really say there were no white people in nearly-all-white Windsor Terrace / Kensington? Or was that a typo?

Posted by: Paul C at February 18, 2009 11:24 AM in response to Stereotyping Brooklyn Nabes and Missing the Point

I used to live in WT, and I absolutely hated the commute - for the reason that the F is local and there are no good transfers. It was 19 agonizingly slow stops to my office in midtown. Ugh.

Posted by: Paul C at February 13, 2009 2:40 PM in response to Open House Picks: Six Months Later

Lechacal - I do think of Lehman bankruptcy (Sept 15) as a bright line event. More accurately, the bright line event was the subsequent stock market collapse in early October.

I think this because I am in contract (signed in April), and late Sept / early Oct is when a lot of the money I had set aside for the down payment, closing costs, furnishing and landscaping simply vanished into thin air. Sure, I should have been more in cash, less in stocks, but I was slowly liquidating toward that point when the bottom fell out. In addition, a big chunk of my compensation is in equity, which fell to 1/3 of its former value. Now, they say there will be no raises this year. And I am seeing friends get laid off. While the real estate market may have been drifting down throughout 2008, it wasn't until Sept that I personally experienced financial free-fall.

Which means the deal that was ambitious in April, suddenly became not only unwise, but essentially impossible.

And I don't think I am the only one whose financial picture was radically altered in one terrible month - it was a very bright line event for many would-be buyers.

Posted by: Paul C at February 13, 2009 2:37 PM in response to Open House Picks: Six Months Later

I think these are actually in a better location than Northside Piers or 80 Met. Practically in the geographic center of Williamsburg, rather than way over on the river.

Posted by: Paul C at February 13, 2009 2:24 PM in response to Checking In On 14 Hope Street

I think it's relevant that the Park Slope contract was signed Sept 2 ("pre-Lehman"). In other words, in a very different time.

Posted by: Paul C at February 13, 2009 2:10 PM in response to Open House Picks: Six Months Later

DIBS - I don't think we've "gotten beyond the usefulness of the pre and post Lehman comparisons."

The 1BBP units went into contract in 2007. Not relevant.

The Boro Park townhouse was also pre-Lehman. Not relevant.

The Park Slope 3 family was signed 9/22 - just days after Lehman, but before the October crash - so it's relevance is debatable.

The only one that is genuinely interesting in terms of today's market is that Fort Greene conversion, signed in November - seems like a good sign for Team Bull, if taken in isolation. Let's see if they can sell the other 3 units.

Posted by: Paul C at February 10, 2009 12:37 PM in response to Last Week's Biggest Sales

Sam says: "New York looks like it may be starting to be over."

How can New York be "over"? Have I been living in a giant fashion trend for the past 2 decades? If so, how embarassing! Apparently, my city is sooooo last year. WTF.

Posted by: Paul C at February 6, 2009 11:14 AM in response to It's Tough Out There for a Middle-Class New Yorker

DH - Actually, these units are $425 - $479 psf, other than the 2 duplexes with recreation rooms (that is, basements) that are a bit cheaper as a result.

That being said, I admit I may have exaggerated - prices are not below $500 psf yet in places like Greenpoint or the eastern edge of Williamsburg (neighborhoods which I consider much more desirable than Bushwick), but they are probably headed that way.

I also admit that $450 psf might be an OK price for Bushwick, although I see entire houses asking less than $300,000. Personally I would never buy there, at just about any price, and definitely not now, when the gentification wave has reached its high point, and is rapidly receding.

Posted by: Paul C at January 29, 2009 3:54 PM in response to New Bushwick Condo Boldly Braves the Bear Market

Bushwick is a "pretty livable" neighborhood - 11 long stops to Union Square on the L train. I can't imagine why anyone would want to buy there in a collapsing market.

Plus, you can now get the same value (per square foot) in much nicer areas. So unless Bushwick has some particular appeal to you, why bother.

Posted by: Paul C at January 29, 2009 12:26 PM in response to New Bushwick Condo Boldly Braves the Bear Market

This article relates to investment properties (of under $100 million), and states that most owners of such properties are choosing not to sell at this time. It also states that capital (that is, big money) is being patient. As a result, volume is low.

The article has nothing to do with the average Joe or Ms. Muffet who are waiting to buy a reasonably-priced home to live in. As for that kind of property, supply continues to grow due to over-construction, while on the demand side there is not so much "patient capital" as there is "lack of capital".

Posted by: Paul C at January 28, 2009 11:12 AM in response to Knakal: Supply, Not Demand, the Problem This Time

Wasder - although there are 2 sales here - one is "pre-Lehman" (not relevant to today), and one is fraught with strange facts, e.g., re-listing it immediately after closing. Hard to know what to make of that, but I don't see anything to cheer about here.

Posted by: Paul C at January 23, 2009 1:23 PM in response to Open House Picks: Six Months Later

"Better results than the past few weeks"??? Not really:

1. South Slope - All the issues noted above.

2. Ft. Greene - Did not drop price, and did not sell.

3. Ditmas Park - Sold for 6% off, pre-Lehman. Accurate reflection of market in September, not relevant to today.

4. Bed-Stuy - Off the market.

None of this adds up to "better results".

Posted by: Paul C at January 23, 2009 1:08 PM in response to Open House Picks: Six Months Later

"Prices are down only 4 percent"? Based on what - contracts that were signed before October?

If so, that statistic is meaningless.

Posted by: Paul C at December 17, 2008 12:22 PM in response to New Building Permits Plummet

Nokilissa - There were plenty of comments on the Curbed story itself, but it mostly descended into an inane off-topic battle of Williamsburg versus Park Slope. At least we are spared that here.

But one commenter on Curbed said something that made me doubly sad - "The Greenpoint condo market is going to fold like the Buffalo Bills." Sucks for me, since I am in contract for a Greenpoint condo (since April) and I am also a fan of the Bills, who started the season with a 5-1 record, now 6-8.

Fortunately, there are more important things in life besides money and the fate of my teams. Right?

Posted by: Paul C at December 16, 2008 2:10 PM in response to Viridian Goes Rental

I am no expert, but after following the market for the past few years as a potential buyer, I think the peak (for the areas I am interested in) was late 07 - early 08, therefore unlike "pretty much everyone else" I agree with Miss Muffett.

Posted by: Paul C at December 12, 2008 5:05 PM in response to Open House Picks: Six Months Later

These stories about the oil spill and other contaminants in Greenpoint rarely mention that the contaminated area is generally confined to a mostly-industrial area, very far removed from the historic district of Greenpoint, or the emerging restaurant / bar scene on Franklin St. Simply stated, it does not affect many residential units. Therefore, it would be nice if they started calling the oil-spill area "East Greenpoint" or something.

Or maybe "Newtown Creek Shores"

That being said, anyone building new condos on top of the East Greenpoint oil spill deserves to lose their shirts.

Posted by: Paul C at December 8, 2008 1:56 PM in response to Across-the-Board Cuts at 271 Nassau Avenue

Miss Heather is a crank and a busybody. She delights in pointing out (what she sees as) the bad, ugly, and decrepit. In her view, everything pretty much sucks and exists primarily to torment her sensitive aesthetics.

Posted by: Paul C at November 19, 2008 4:34 PM in response to Closing Bell: New Entry to Real Estate Lexicon:

maj2010 - like you, I started biking to midtown earlier this year, and its become almost an obsession, due to (i) shorter commute time and (ii) getting exercise.

I lock it up on the street (with 2 locks), and so far I haven't encountered any problems (knock on wood).

Posted by: Paul C at November 11, 2008 3:33 PM in response to New Rule for New Buildings: Bike Parking

We are not at the appraisal phase yet, so I don't know how that will go. The reason I think its overpriced is partially from the "babble" on this site, but mostly from my sense that prices have been stupidly high for the past 3 - 4 years - which is fine as long as they stay high. But with the crashing economy, and the obvious glut of supply, I am pretty sure prices will drop 10% (or more), which equates to $60,000+ loss for me. And that is money I can't afford. Of course, this doesn't really matter if we plan to stay for many years, but the truth is I don't know what the future will bring. We are basically a one-income family and if I lost my job, and we were forced to sell, I have a strong feeling we could end up "underwater" with respect to any mortgage. That is scaring me.

My feelings have changed a lot since as recently as September, and particularly since April when we signed the contract - I have lost a painful amount in the stock market, assets that I was planning to liquidate and use for buying furniture, and landscaping. Now, 35-40% of it is gone. Things are tough for a first time buyer and we're thinking we'd be better off staying at our rent stablized apt (yes, rent stabilized!) for now.

To answer some other questions - it's on the Greenpoint stop - yes, it's a longer hike to Bedford than from Richardson, but the point is that its a hike either way. So, to get back to my original point, I saw units that were the same price range around Graham Ave and they were smaller and/or crappier. So my feeling is the GP and E.Wmsbrg neighborhoods are fairly comparable in terms of commuting and amenities, but I found GP to be a better value.

Posted by: Paul C at October 23, 2008 5:21 PM in response to Tough Times at Outer-Burg Scarano and Karl

k91 - calm down. The area where these buildings are located is simply OK (I never said "pretty cool") - I lived there for a couple of years (2005-2006). Real old-school Brooklyn. But that type of environment is not what high-end condo buyers are looking for. In my view, the builders that put pricey stuff up in this area are crazy. I wanted to buy around there and I was amazed at the price, considering the location. I saw some disgusting units that were priced as if they were in a trendy neighborhood. Anyway, I decided that I could get more for my money (and be equally close to Bedford amenities) if I bought in Greenpoint, instead of East Williamsburg. Thus, I am in contract for a 1,200+ sq ft duplex, with huge yard, 1 block from the G. $524 per sq ft. After nearly 2 years of looking, this was by far the best place I found for the money. HOWEVER in the 5 months since I signed the contract, the economy has gone to shit, the place is NOW overpriced, and I don't even know if I will get a mortgage. So I am screwed and not happy. I love the place, but I don't know if I will even be able to close. Anyway, all I am saying is that I looked around N. Brooklyn for nearly 2 years, and I thought the area east of the BQE was the most frustratingly overpriced area, and this is from experience of living there. In my view, you would be crazy to build and pricey condos on Richardson (east of BQE) or Monitor or places like that.

Posted by: Paul C at October 22, 2008 5:15 PM in response to Tough Times at Outer-Burg Scarano and Karl

k91 - I have lived all over Brooklyn -- Fort Greene, Windsor Terrace, and many areas of Williamsburg (Bedford stop, Lorimer stop, AND Graham stop). I am not busting on the Graham Ave old-time Italian neighborhood - it's a pretty nice little hood, in some respects - and I actually was looking to buy over there and found it preposterously overpriced. Therefore, I re-iterate my view that people who can afford $700,000+ for a "luxury" condo are not interested in being over there on the east side of the BQE, particularly on Richardson, with a 10 minute walk to the subway. They want to be where their type of people are, with access to lots of nice restaurants, cutting edge bars, cutesy shops, etc. Therefore, any developer who builds pricey condos over in your neck of the woods (again, I have lived there and thought it was reasonable nice), is just plain dumb. Whereas, building along the East River or around the Bedford stop is just plain smart, even if you and I both hate the type of people that will buy there.

Posted by: Paul C at October 22, 2008 11:24 AM in response to Tough Times at Outer-Burg Scarano and Karl

I agree with gkw. There is prime Williamsburg and then there is totally NOT prime "Williamsburg". Anyone who tried to build luxury condos which are a 10-15 minute walk to even the Graham Avenue stop on the L deserves to lose their shirts. Are buyers really going to be fooled by ads that claim that it's "near" the attractions of Bedford Ave, after they walk around the immediate neighborhood and find little more than the BQE roaring by, and maybe some auto repair shops.

Posted by: Paul C at October 21, 2008 12:13 PM in response to Tough Times at Outer-Burg Scarano and Karl

I rented in Williamsburg for several years, and wanted to buy there since I love the neighborhood. My wife and I shopped around - looked at some of these places around McCarren Park, among others - and found that the value wasn't there - to use a cliche - these are cookie cutter, and soulless. And there's obviously a glut of them, so we figured they would not be good investments. We ended up going to Greenpoint - a nice neighborhood in its own right, fairly close to my favorite Williamsburg bars (etc), and bought a "boutique" condo that has character, the way a home in Brooklyn should. Otherwise you might as well stay in Manhattan. Which brings me to that Northside Piers copy about having the "Manhattan lifestyle" -- makes me ill. If you want the Manhattan lifestyle, then live in Manhattan.

Posted by: Paul C at October 7, 2008 1:50 PM in response to North Brooklyn: Condo Graveyard?

We negotiated a slightly reduced price on our Greenpoint new-construction condo yesterday (of all days to even THINK about buying!). We had to fight extremely hard, and we barely got any price reduction at all. The Sponsor did not seem to care about recent economic developments. But we love the space (duplex with exclusive garden), and knew there would be other buyers who love it as much as we do, and that was the determining factor. I am nearly certain that we overpaid, however, I am not looking to turn a profit on this "investment", I simply hope that it won't decline in value too much by the time we decide to sell (which could be 5 years or so).

Posted by: Paul C at September 30, 2008 12:31 PM in response to Last Week's Biggest Sales

As a former resident of WT, and occasional customer of Farrell's, I have to say that it is precisely the type of old timey (and old man) bar that fills a particular niche and fits well in the neighborhood. Basically it's an institution. On the other hand, as the writer said, it's not everyone's cup of tea (especially many women), and the neighborhood could definitely use a few other options.

Posted by: Paul C at September 26, 2008 11:23 AM in response to [Virtually] Duking It Out Over Windsor Terrace

I agree with gkw, I am mystified by Oro and other developments in that immediate area. In my view, the location leaves much to be desired. Maybe I am missing something.

Posted by: Paul C at September 24, 2008 11:00 AM in response to Closings Begin at Oro