Drumskin, I don't know the full story on 47 Sidney since I don't see a recorded deed, but even if did sell at $3.6M as you suppose, I wouldn't rush to a simplistic PSF calculation to decide that this house won't sell for more than $1.9M. As you yourself point out, the sizes of the houses are very different. You can't straightline the value based on size - the incremental value from an extra floor or a rear extension is not the same on a PSF basis as the basic footprint of a regular sized house. Also, the types of houses are different - 47 Sidney is a 3-family (maybe used as 2) versus this 1-family. In my experience, 1-families get a higher premium in Brooklyn Heights - most people who can afford a multi-million $ house aren't looking for the rental income and prefer no tenants. Sure, you can use the garden rental as a mother-in-law apartment, home office, etc. - but if you don't NEED the rental apt. to carry the mortgage, why bother getting a 6,000sf house when a 3,500-4,500sf house is perfectly adequate? And if you buy a house set up as 3-family (even if used as 1 or 2), you either need to put up with inconvenient stair layout, or pay some renovation costs to get the layout more amenable to single-family living. There are plenty of reasons why a bigger house on this block would sell for "only" $580/sf and this house could still get a much higher price on a PSF basis.

Posted by: NorthHeights at November 18, 2009 6:53 PM in response to House of the Day: 22 Sidney Place

They need to get in line with the new yard planting regulations...don't see a lick of green, not even in the backyards!

Posted by: NorthHeights at November 17, 2009 1:29 PM in response to House of the Day: 121 Rapelye Street

What about burying the cable from the pole in the backyard to the house? Will they do that?

Posted by: NorthHeights at November 17, 2009 10:22 AM in response to Removing Unsightly Wires?

Transfer taxes are the responsibility of the seller. If the parties agree that the buyer will reimburse the seller for the transfer tax, then this reimbursement is part of the "consideration" paid to the seller and on which the buyer's mansion tax is calculated. But in the ordinary case where the seller pays the transfer tax, the mansion tax is calculated on the purchase price alone.

Posted by: NorthHeights at November 11, 2009 2:32 PM in response to Mansion Tax

I agree with Denton. When I first moved to Brooklyn Heights into a pre-war apartment, I sort of sniffed at this 60s behemoth's exterior. Now that I've been inside several units, I have a much more favorable impression. The outside will never win a beauty contest with a 19th century townhouse, but the insides (at least the renovated units) are pretty nice for the price point.

Posted by: NorthHeights at November 5, 2009 2:38 PM in response to Co-op of the Day: 75 Henry Street, #19A

All of the above could stop the cutting/merging on the FDR, but that's not what's causing the back-ups. The back-ups are caused by the two merges on the bridge approach ramps. There's no easy fix without adding a lane.

What Brooklynites need most to solve the bridge's traffic woes is to create a dedicated exit ramp/tunnel from the bridge onto the south (aka west) bound BQE. A big chunk of bridge traffic is headed straight to the BQE. But the exit ramp merge approaching Cadman Plaza West, followed by a yield sign and two traffic lights, slows the flow and causes all of those right lane back-ups on the bridge that sometime snake all the way to the FDR. A dedicated connection to the BQE would also get a lot of traffic off of Old Fulton Street and make for a safer, nicer pedestrian approach to Brooklyn Bridge Park. Needless to say, this is a more ambitious project.

Senator Squadron, are you reading?

Posted by: NorthHeights at November 3, 2009 10:30 AM in response to Squadron Helps Drivers Get Off (The FDR)

I would suspect that of the childless readers, many aspire toward families+kids, for the same reason that the almost 40% of readers who rent are reading a site so focused on home ownership - they aspire toward owning.

Posted by: NorthHeights at October 29, 2009 1:44 PM in response to Brownstoner 2009 Survey Results

That block is a traffic nightmare. There's always tons of eastbound through traffic backed up because of the lights at GAP.

Posted by: NorthHeights at October 29, 2009 1:32 PM in response to House of the Day: 902 Union Street

That block is a traffic nightmare. There's always tons of eastbound through traffic backed up because of the lights at GAP.

Posted by: NorthHeights at October 29, 2009 1:32 PM in response to House of the Day: 902 Union Street

Mrs. Foil is hot!
:-)

Posted by: NorthHeights at October 28, 2009 12:20 PM in response to Floors needing sanding!

Bob, when was the last time you could make a payphone call for a dime?!
:-)

Posted by: NorthHeights at October 26, 2009 12:21 PM in response to Permit Needed for Street #s ?

You're correct, the Hicks Street sign in the exterior shots of the Grand Ticino was just a prop to make it look like the restaurant was a couple of blocks from Rose's house in Brooklyn Heights. The actual filming location for the exterior shots is the restaurant located at 284 W. 12th Street in Manhattan (corner of W. 4th Street), in the West Village. The shot in the film is from in front of the building on W. 12th, looking south down W. 4th. If you go to that corner, you can see that the neon palm tree in the house window at the very left of the shot (east side of W. 4th Street) is still there today.

Posted by: NorthHeights at October 14, 2009 11:58 AM in response to Breaking: Moonstruck House Hitting Market

By the looks of the picture, the owner will need to police the curb cut a little better. If some joker parks equally close on the right side as the jeep is on the left, you'd be lucky to fit a mini into that driveway. Yellow paint be damned!

Posted by: NorthHeights at October 5, 2009 4:29 PM in response to 280 Hicks Up For Auction

Mr. Joist-
My guess is the State Street house needs a lot of work. The first thing the listing says is: "A rare opportunity to either convert to 2 Family or renovate with some cosmetic updating for a fabulous single family residence." And it's only 2 houses in from the movie theater on Court (and across from the dumps that penson recently unloaded) so not a super premium location. The current asking price is probably in the ballpark - if there were a widget, I'd say $2.3 - but not cheap. This end of the block is a little hard to sell because the people who'd want to pay a premium for the heights might not consider it, and those who don't care about the heights premium can find nicer houses in cobble hill or boreum hill just a couple of blocks away on a different price scale.

Posted by: NorthHeights at September 18, 2009 10:45 PM in response to Open House Picks

The Brooklyn heights house is actually 169 State Street, according to the Stribling listing

Posted by: NorthHeights at September 18, 2009 1:26 PM in response to Open House Picks

I tend to agree with Ringo's anecdotal evidence...and the census data backs up his 5-10 year ago assessment.

According to nyc.gov per 2000 census:

Brooklyn Heights--
total population: 20,132
percentage households w/ persons 65 years and over: 18.9% (#: 1,965)
percentage households w/ 65 years and over living alone: 6.9% (#: 1,219)
female householder with no husband present as a percentage of total households: 3.8% (#: 393)

Park Slope--
total population: 57,442
percentage households w/ persons 65 years and over: 12.4%
(#: 3,273)
percentage households w/ 65 years and over living alone: 2.4% (#: 1,381)
female householder with no husband present as a percentage of total households: 10% (#: 2,637)

here's the racial breakdown:
BH --
77.5% white
7.3% black
4.9% asian
7.5% hispanic

PS --
61.6% white
9.9% black
5.3% asian
19.5% hispanic

Posted by: NorthHeights at September 14, 2009 7:20 PM in response to Co-op of the Day: 57 Montague Street, #4A

when jumbo financing is out the window, I don't see it so unreasonable to think there are still lots of folks who can and will spend $500K cash to buy this apartment but not so many people able or willing to pony up $1-$2 million cash for a house, no matter how nice.

Posted by: NorthHeights at September 14, 2009 2:24 PM in response to Co-op of the Day: 57 Montague Street, #4A

I'd prefer central air conditiong to automatic watering systems.

Posted by: NorthHeights at September 14, 2009 2:01 PM in response to House of the Day: 591 2nd Street

I agree with Sam

I also agree with BH76 - the maintenance is all about the taxes. If you want to own an apartment in Brooklyn Heights, you have to get past the attitude of "I would never pay that kind of maintenance for an apartment this size."

Posted by: NorthHeights at September 14, 2009 1:41 PM in response to Co-op of the Day: 57 Montague Street, #4A

Am I missing something? There are 2 interior pics and the kitchen shot. How do you even have enough info to write "appears to be perfect in just about every way"?

Posted by: NorthHeights at September 14, 2009 1:37 PM in response to House of the Day: 591 2nd Street

Maly you might be right. Even at that percentage hard to say if it's meangingful because houses are unique. The Hicks Street house is somewhat larger and needed less work, but Orange Street house is beter located. I don't think the difference in width matters all that much, the Orange Street house even at 20' is quite small by BH standards where 25' is the norm and the houses/lots are much deeper. They're both nice houses.

In the end I agree there are lots of people with lots of money out there which I think was BH76's original point - when there are only 15-20 sales per year, it doesn't take too many rich people to support the market.

Posted by: NorthHeights at September 11, 2009 4:49 PM in response to Open House Picks: Six Months Later

Like Ringo, I will leave my commenting to Brooklyn Heights (and the townhouse market only), which is what I know, and leave the other neighborhoods for the rest of you to speculate on.

I think Minard is being a little optimistic on the inventory and a little pessimistic on the pricing ("The good news is that houses are selling in Brooklyn Heights, the bad news is that they are selling quite a bit lower than they were pre-lehman.")

There were only about 20 houses sold in each of 2002-6, and only 15 houses in each of 2007 and 2008 when the market peaked. This year the sale rate is on track to be less than 10. But to the extent you can extrapolate any trends from what is literally a handful of sales this year, there's been a couple of sales at peak pricing (0% off) and a couple at 20-25% off peak. On the outliers, an extra large (5500 sf) house sold for 33% below similar comps from the past 2 years, and a shell that sold for the same price as what shells have sold for in the past few years. All in all, I think the most you could say for Brooklyn Heights is that prices might be down about 15% on average.

Maly, on a per square foot basis, the Orange Street house you mention sold for about 17% higher than this Hicks Street house.

Posted by: NorthHeights at September 11, 2009 3:33 PM in response to Open House Picks: Six Months Later

Nice work.
Just a couple of corrections: except for the homes of the original estate owners, the earliest houses developed on Brooklyn Heights weren't built until the early 1800s (not late 1700s). Also, the Standish Arms is on Columbia Heights (not Hicks).

Posted by: NorthHeights at September 2, 2009 10:55 AM in response to Walkabout with Montrose: Lux Living: Apartment Hotels

"Well, NH, you are certainly allowed to disagree with reality if you like. Doesn't make you right. Pretty much common knowledge the ultra upper end market is under siege right now."

I wasn't basing my post on "common knowledge" or the other BS that passes for reality on Brownstoner, but on the comps recorded in ACRIS for May/June/July (which have often shown up on this site as "Last Week's Biggest Sales.")

I didn't say everything was hunky-dory and to the moon. Just that things are not in "really bad shape."

Forget asking prices - that's meaningless. Take a look at sold prices for 1 and 2 family homes or comparable-sized coops in Brooklyn Heights/Cobble Hill in 2007/2008 and compare to 2009, and then tell me if things are in "really bad shape" or simply levelled off from the froth.

Posted by: NorthHeights at August 25, 2009 3:47 PM in response to House of the Day: 182 Clinton Street

No retail??? It's right across from Mickey D's!!! What more could you want?

Posted by: NorthHeights at August 25, 2009 3:17 PM in response to Development Watch: 277 Gold Street

Agree on the 70 feet lot - the backyard is probably half the size of a typical Heights brownstone yard, and only 30 feet deep. And because it's 1 house in from the corner, it faces the side of a State St building and not another yard. Someone above wrote that it was like a "prison yard."

But disagree about the 1 family. I think that's a plus in the $3 million house market. "Even rich people don't mind some rental income" - yes, but in someone else's building, not their own house.

Posted by: NorthHeights at August 25, 2009 3:00 PM in response to House of the Day: 182 Clinton Street

I disagree that the "high end of the brownstone market is really in bad shape" but it's certainly true that buyers are more fickle/demanding. Houses in the Heights, Cobble Hill, etc. have sold in recent months at higher prices so it just shows that idiosyncratic houses can sit in today's market. I've wondered for a while why this house hasn't moved; the layout isn't typical but in the boom market that wouldn't have mattered much. As the comments here show, it matters A LOT today.

Posted by: NorthHeights at August 25, 2009 2:23 PM in response to House of the Day: 182 Clinton Street

Have you tried National Cooperative Bank? All they do is loans to co-ops.

Posted by: NorthHeights at August 13, 2009 2:18 PM in response to Underlying Mortgages

bjork bjork bjork BJORK

Posted by: NorthHeights at August 12, 2009 5:17 PM in response to House of the Day: 20 Grace Court Alley

Why do they need to drive 12 cars to the location? The 84th precinct is literally across the street!!

Posted by: NorthHeights at August 6, 2009 9:54 AM in response to Union Protest at 277 Gold

25 Willow Place
Buyer is an architect so assume some cost savings on the reno.
Location (next to MTA plant) limits the upside on this one, though.

Posted by: NorthHeights at August 4, 2009 2:40 PM in response to Last Week's Biggest Sales

how did you possibly get to this point without figuring out how you were going to get this done?

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 30, 2009 4:49 PM in response to Neighbors - Wall Sharing - Law

Not sure I understand the facade comment. It's a frame house that looks like it's been stuccoed badly. Maybe it looks different in person? I'd want to pull off the stucco and restore it to clapboard. That's a big job, though.

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 30, 2009 1:43 PM in response to House of the Day: 78 Adelphi Street Revisited

A renovated house across the street with nearly identical width and depth, but one less floor, sold for $2.7 mil. It was in "Last Week's Biggest Sales" a few weeks ago. If one assumes the current market price on this house - renovated - would be $3.375 mil (adjusting up for size), and you subtract the cost of a $350/sq ft renovation (middle of the road cost for single family in the heights) + architect fee, you'd want to pay no more than $1.7 mil for this house in its current condition. Pretty close to the current listed price. But as stated, you'd need to do it all/most in cash.

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 29, 2009 3:59 PM in response to House of the Day: 156 Hicks Street Revisited

Those charges seem outrageous. $6000 origination fee is crazy for any loan. The .5 loan discount fee is what it is, but if they didn't tell you in advance that it was necessary to get the rate offered then they were just lying to you.
Are you doing cash-out or rate & term refi? If the latter then the discount fee is $3000 plus the origination fee leaves other $10000 in other charges which I can't even fathom where they come from if you're doing a CEMA in which there's no mortgage tax. Is it a house and when you did you last finance/purchase it? I'm assuming you can get the title insurance renewal rate which is about 0.0025% of the principal. That's $1500. Lawyer's fee should fee $500-$1000. CEMA fee should be no more than $1000-$1500. Appraisal $1000.
Sounds like they're adding in mortgage tax somehow.

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 28, 2009 12:14 PM in response to Refi Closing Costs - Shoe Drops!

"...at 505 Court Street...we're having a hard time understanding why it didn't sell last year when it was on the market for $899,000...monthly carrying costs are $1,391, which is higher than you'd expect...."

505 court street (wedged between elevated gowanus and F train) + $1391 cc --> complete understanding why it didn't sell at $899K

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 27, 2009 1:55 PM in response to Condo of the Day: 505 Court Street, #10C

I'm not sure I'd go with the subjective "desperation sale." If they sold in an up-market for the same reason (relocation, divorce, etc.) and made a profit but missed out on future appreciation, would you also call that a desperation sale? Seems to me this is another example of why home ownership isn't 100% analogous to any other type of investment, notwithstanding that belief in certain quarters.

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 27, 2009 1:50 PM in response to House of the Day: 49 Dikeman Street

ghettoazzpnkbtch = brownstoner

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 23, 2009 12:31 PM in response to Bearish Brownstoners Miss Mark on 2nd Street Sale

Bivouac, you forgot Miss Muffet: $750,000!

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 23, 2009 10:27 AM in response to Bearish Brownstoners Miss Mark on 2nd Street Sale

Who pays $1,086,312?

Buyer: "I offer $1,086,137."
Seller: "I won't go lower than $1,086,487."
Buyer: "OK let's meet in the mdidle at $1,086,312."

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 23, 2009 9:59 AM in response to Bearish Brownstoners Miss Mark on 2nd Street Sale

"Guvs Island to Brooklyn: Drop Dead"

Here's municipal progress for you: they want to take a perfectly good ferry service running from Fulton Ferry Landing, accessible to a number of mass transit options from deeper in Brooklyn, and replace it with service more inconvenient to 99%+ of Brooklynites. And they want to charge you for it (while keeping it free for Manhattanites). And they hold a press conference to announce this "improvement."

Good grief.

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 23, 2009 9:21 AM in response to Thursday Links

And the listing is Halstead, not Elliman
0-2...will it be a strike-out?

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 22, 2009 1:01 PM in response to Condo of the Day: 30 Main Street, #4G

That's a nice google map of Brooklyn...Brooklyn, Indiana that is.

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 22, 2009 12:59 PM in response to Condo of the Day: 30 Main Street, #4G

Just to be clear - the "new service" is the Pier 6 water taxi dock. I'm guessing it won't be open until next year along with the rest of Pier 6.

The existing service from Fulton Ferry Landing has been running this summer on random weekend days. (The official line is that it operates whenever there's a special event on the island, but since there seems to be such an event every single weekend day, I find the schedule to be essentially random.)

Brooklyn Heights Blog summarized the open questions: whether the new service will replace or supplement the existing service, and whether the new one will be free as is the existing ferry.

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 22, 2009 12:52 PM in response to New Ferry Service Between Brooklyn and Guvs Island!

"Based on the $1.8 million widget you have to put 20% down these days to qualify for jumbo + closing costs + minimal renovation = $500,000 to get into this place. That still leaves you with a $10,000+ monthly mortgage."

Here's a newsflash for the folks who aren't actually in the market for the multi-million dollar HOTDs:

(1) Very few people buying at these price points ever put only 20% down.

(2) No one today can put 20% down. You're lucky to get a jumbo with 35% down, more likely 40-50%.

(3) "Who's your prospective buyer?" seems to go back to the fable that only people making 1/2 million a year or more to support a 5-digit monthly mortgage are in the market for these houses. Circle back to points 1,2 - there are lots of potential buyers with a big downpayment (Manhattan cash-outs, inheritances, careful saving of boom year bonuses) who make a comfortable income (say $250K-$300K dual income families) but are not mega cash-flow wealthy by NYC standards.

I'm not opining one way or another on the price of this house - just wanted to (re)inject a dose of reality. I know there are others who regularly point this out in a sisyphean way.

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 21, 2009 5:54 PM in response to House of the Day: 455 Henry Street

Yes, there's a market in these neighborhoods to rent an entire house. Mainly families temporarily relocating from overseas - think diplomats, i-bankers, etc.

But as mentioned above - why? Unless you genuinely think prices have bottomed out, or have already found a specific property that is super-unique, I don't see why you'd undertake the expense and hassle. All of the situations I know where people rented whole houses are because they needed to relocate (same case as their tenants) and didn't want to sell their house (due to personal attachment, market conditions, or both).

Further thoughts on the expense:

#1: People who rent are looking for a well-maintained, move-in condition property. People who can afford to rent an entire house in the neighborhoods you list are going to have even higher expectations. So if you're looking to buy now, you're going to need to pony up big bucks for either a renovated house or pay for the renovation yourself.

#2: I tend to agree that the ownership costs will exceed your rental income...housing prices are still pretty elevated in those neighborhoods. You don't see investors swooping in because the houses still don't make sense as investment properties.

#3: As mentioned above, if you want to get a mortgage, you will either need to fib on the "owner-occupied" part, or get an investment mortgage.

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 20, 2009 1:38 PM in response to Renting Out Entire Brownstone?

Speaking of featured houses that have gone rental, I noticed on Corcoran today ("most viewed rental") that the owner of 3 Monroe Place, HOTD on June 15 asking $3.995 million, has already given up and gone the rental route. Top floor, 900sft 1 bedroom, for $2500/mo.

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 17, 2009 1:23 PM in response to Open House Picks: Six Months Later

"How will they know?"
They won't, unless you start to become delinquent and they start poking around, in which case they have another arrow in their quiver to foreclose.
Also as DIBS points out, it probably won't appraise and they won't approve until you install the kitchen anyway - dealkiller.

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 17, 2009 10:16 AM in response to Mortgage Dilemma

Minard, please look at the "NY State School Report Card" for P.S. 8 at the nystart.gov website that RF linked to, and compare it to the "NYC Progress Report" available at schools.nyc.gov. Honestly, I don't know how to reconcile them - please explain it to me.

Since you started off by refusing to entertain debate ("You cannot broach this problem with Heights parents who will chew your ear off..."), I won't bother trying to argue with you on substance, but I do think your self-described rant is off the mark:

"The white parents in Brooklyn Heights don't give a flying f-- if the little Black kids from the project don't learn a thing in their precious PS8."

I can't speak for the non-P.S. 8 parents but this is simply not true for the P.S. 8 parents, and it doesn't even make sense. Who, anywhere, sends their kids to a school where they desire and expect their own kids to excel at the expense of their classmates? Most people who feel that way would send their kid to a private school or move.

Are you a parent?

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 16, 2009 1:52 PM in response to New Middle School Coming to Fort Greene

Minard, your post is ridiculous. Leave your ranting to architecture.

Posted by: NorthHeights at July 16, 2009 12:12 PM in response to New Middle School Coming to Fort Greene

i've had wires moved and made neater every place I bought by simply getting a manager to come out. they'll do the work.

good luck.

Posted by: wine lover at November 17, 2009 4:29 PM in response to Removing Unsightly Wires?

I called Verizon and told them that the cables they draped across my backyard fence were fast becoming my sons' favorite climbing toy and should I be worried about that? They came within 2 weeks to do a survey of how to bury the wires and though it was months later, and took a lot of follow up, they got it done.

Posted by: jlo at November 17, 2009 5:51 PM in response to Removing Unsightly Wires?

Yes you can get Verizon to get rid of the box with your neighbors wires. Be persistent, tell them you're doing construction and their box with other customers service will be destroyed. They are slobs when they install. Get tough. And when they balk, filing a complaint with the PSC (done online) gets results.

Posted by: jfss at November 17, 2009 6:11 PM in response to Removing Unsightly Wires?

When they bury the wires, how do they do that? Do they dig up your yard?

Posted by: BB at November 18, 2009 11:38 AM in response to Removing Unsightly Wires?