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April 2, 2008
Two methods or egress?
I'm converting a 5 story Brownstone from a 4 unit to a 2 unit building(duplex and a triplex). It's currently a duplex on the ground level, with 3 floor through apartments. The back is "landlocked" and does not have a fire escape. The main form of egress is a sprinkled stair. If I go to a 2 unit, do I still need two methods of egress from each unit?
Author's Comments
That works for me, but I'd heard they need to get to the front. Does the roof or the garden count?
Posted by: NewOwner08 at April 3, 2008 12:37 AM in response to Two methods or egress?
I appreciate the comments. Can folks recommend someone they're used professionally to help get an official answer? Perhaps an Architect or Engineer that knows fire codes well?
Posted by: NewOwner08 at April 3, 2008 11:19 AM in response to Two methods or egress?
422 - I'd like to open the floor plan up by getting rid of the firebreak wall and doors to the sprinkled stair. If I do this, I was told I lose my egress and have to build a fireproof separate stair. I've never seen this is a single family. Can't I just use the non-fire walled stair if I go single family?
Posted by: NewOwner08 at April 4, 2008 1:22 AM in response to Two methods or egress?
Responses to Author's Forum Comments
Won't each unit have 2 means of egress? The triplex has the front door and the roof hatch (does that count?). The duplex has the front door under the stoop and I assume a door to the back garden.
Posted by: guest at April 3, 2008 12:34 AM in response to Two methods or egress?
That works for me, but I'd heard they need to get to the front. Does the roof or the garden count?
Posted by: NewOwner08 at April 3, 2008 12:37 AM in response to Two methods or egress?
we live in a four family brownstone coop. We have a ladder to the roof from the main stairs and a fire escape. The front door and the roof do not constitute two means of egress, it's just one stairway. A fire escape is a second means of egress. Think of it this way -- when there's a fire and smoke is coming up the staircase, do you have an alternate route out of the building like a fire escape? Two means of egress is law for multi-family. If you are going to be a two family or a one family it does not apply. I'm wondering how your building has four units and no fire escape? That sounds like a problem.
Posted by: guest at April 3, 2008 12:53 AM in response to Two methods or egress?
to 12:53
If the staircase is sprinklered, you do not need a fire escape.
Posted by: guest at April 3, 2008 7:48 AM in response to Two methods or egress?
I appreciate the comments. Can folks recommend someone they're used professionally to help get an official answer? Perhaps an Architect or Engineer that knows fire codes well?
Posted by: NewOwner08 at April 3, 2008 11:19 AM in response to Two methods or egress?
regarding the last comment - you will need an architect or engineer to change your c of o. Ask them as they will be taking resposibility for the change.
Posted by: guest at April 3, 2008 3:59 PM in response to Two methods or egress?
I don't know exactly what you mean by "landlocked", but if you are saying that your building backs up against others you have another issue besides egress.
A two unit building with one egress will be fine with sprinklered stairs. Instead your limitation on what you can do with this may bear more directly on the light and air requirements for each habitable space. Broadly speaking you need 10% window area in proportion to room plan area for each room that the DoB considers a habitable space.
Feel free to shoot me a plan diagram by email if you want a me to take a glance at it.
Posted by: Smokychimp at April 3, 2008 4:22 PM in response to Two methods or egress?
One-family and two-family residential buildings are considered the same occupancy class per NYC building code (R-3). A single means of egress is permitted in this occupancy.
Posted by: guest at April 3, 2008 5:08 PM in response to Two methods or egress?
422 - I'd like to open the floor plan up by getting rid of the firebreak wall and doors to the sprinkled stair. If I do this, I was told I lose my egress and have to build a fireproof separate stair. I've never seen this is a single family. Can't I just use the non-fire walled stair if I go single family?
Posted by: NewOwner08 at April 4, 2008 1:22 AM in response to Two methods or egress?
from my understanding if it's a 2 family unit, you can keep or rip out the sprinklers. a fire escape is not needed.
where is this firebreak wall?
Posted by: guest at April 6, 2008 12:28 AM in response to Two methods or egress?
I'm going to change the C of O. My issue is one of egress for the 2 unit. Does one need two forms of egress in a two unit, or are they treated differently than the four unit? Also, is there a difference between a two unit and a single family, I have the option to do either.
Posted by: NewOwner08 at April 3, 2008 12:18 AM in response to Two methods or egress?