lol, that should read "throw".
sorry, I'm ignorant some times

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 4:52 PM in response to Open Thread

bxgrl,
I tend to agree with you about the early stages of pregnancy. Again, I have no religious horse in that race.

12/3? only if everyone steers clear of politics and religion. lol.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 4:43 PM in response to Open Thread

townhouselady,
I hear you. So I will through out this question:

does the 7, 8, 9 month fetus have rights as a human being?

no need to answer. just further illustrating the point to 11217 about how our concepts can change on both sides, and they don't necessarily denote "ignorance".

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 4:38 PM in response to Open Thread

11217,

but I was only pointing you to the scientific consensus.
now who is being close minded?

you see 11217, there is the double edged sword.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 4:30 PM in response to Open Thread

11217,

or stated more succinctly:

go look at a 3 dimensional sonogram of a six month fetus and come back here to tell us that that is NOT a human being in there.

I suspect your ideas of what's right and wrong will be re-defined. mind you, I'm not advocating a particular side on the abortion issue. Just pointing out the science of it.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 4:17 PM in response to Open Thread

dibs,
I hope your right, but that doesn't mitigate the fact that as our intergovermental holdings come do, and our debt service grows, the money to hand out to our seniors, all 70 million baby boomers, soon runs out.
That's not good.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 4:15 PM in response to Open Thread

dirty hipster,

lol, hey, I just wanted to talk about cats and their tactile pads!

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 4:04 PM in response to Open Thread

11217,

"I have to believe that basic human rights (FOR ALL) is right. You don't have to think so, but I do and will continue to fight for it...for myself and for others. "

not to get all scientific on you, but in vivo studies have shown that the fetus has the ability to sense pain and even laugh.

didn't want to go there, but you forced the issue.
and before everyone gets all nuts, I myself am not
religious.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 4:03 PM in response to Open Thread

brokedeveloper,

take it up with 11217 (he/she) seems to equate religous beliefs with ignorance.
despite the examples I've given in opposition of that idea; namely;
- Gregor Mendel the Christian Monk
-Michael Faraday the church Elder
-Max Plank the devout lutheran
-Louis Pasteur the devout christian

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 3:58 PM in response to Open Thread

DIBS,
I have to disagree with you there,
there is a cost to service that debt.
Especially when an increasing amount of that debt is held by foreign powers.
If China decides to suddenly dump all those treasuries, watch how quickly that cost comes home to roost.
or when that debt from intergovernmental holdings that has been owed to the social security trust begins to turn upside down and we can't meet those obligations to our seniors because we are servicing our debt to international investors.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 3:56 PM in response to Open Thread

11217

lol, I'm stretching? remember, this was just a discussion on whether or not the NJ and VA vote had some relevance to Obama's politics.
You chose to veer off into Copernicus and medival religious thought.
I know you feel you are right about your convictions regarding marriage and abortion, but you seem to ignore the reality of a few billion people and their religious beliefs. Societal norms and ideas are shaped by the majority and are not so easily changed, they come after struggle and conflict, physical and intellectual and the course of time. And who says you are necessarily right about anything in the end?

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 3:52 PM in response to Open Thread

11217,

somehow you've veered off into an argument on the uninformed electorate as a defense of your politics. sounds like you simply don't like the democratic process. why don't you propose a constitutional amendment to require a testing prior to voting?
Perhaps that will sway the masses in your favor.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 3:41 PM in response to Open Thread

dibs,
is that a good thing or a bad thing that we are approaching 100% debt/gdp ratios?

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 3:40 PM in response to Open Thread

11217,

just curious, did you cross-reference how many of those people who believe the sun revolves around the earth are also believers in Gore's global warming.
you may be surprised, the "ignorance" you speak of, hardly observes party lines.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 3:38 PM in response to Open Thread

11217

DALLAS (Reuters Life!) - More Americans believe in a literal hell and the devil than Darwin's theory of evolution, according to a new Harris poll released on Thursday.

It is the latest survey to highlight America's deep level of religiosity, a cultural trait that sets it apart from much of the developed world

your implication was clear; those that have religious beliefs are to be marginalized as uninformed and "ignorant".
you must try to read what you print before denying it.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 3:34 PM in response to Open Thread

11217,
no wonder Minard Lefevere jumps all over you. You go to great lengths to bash the observant.

what exactly are "ingorant Americans" angry about?
how about the fact that the national debt is projected to
exceed 100% of Gross Domestic Product from 2012 onward?
Congressional Budget office says so, not me.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 3:28 PM in response to Open Thread

11217

bashing religious beliefs is no answer and certainly won't elevate your intellectual position in the argument.
Gregor Mendel was a Christian monk, Max Planck was a devout Lutheran, Michael Faraday was a church elder and Louis Pasteur was a devout Catholic.
What is your point exactly?

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 3:24 PM in response to Open Thread

benson,
exactly right. Ask Gore if he can predict the weather accurately past next Tuesday. But, somehow he is certain the Earth is doomed.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 3:19 PM in response to Open Thread

11217,

resorting to "brainless Americans" will not further your point, unfortunately.
try the most recent Gallup poll though, since you like to quote polls;
Obama's 3rd quarter approval rating has dropped to 53% down from 62% in 2nd quarter. The largest quarterly drop since 1953. That's Gallup, not me.
Bottom line, you think Obama leads in a vacum, I don't. Like it or not, national politics plays out in the polls locally, if only by energizing the opposing base.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 3:17 PM in response to Open Thread

snappy,
lol, there's money in them "hockers" , Mucinex is like the number one over the counter expectorant on the market.

biff,
didn't know you were a Roxy Music fan. I like the new arrangement.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 3:05 PM in response to Open Thread

slopefarm

ok, let's go to the voter's themselves. exit polls in NJ showed that about 60% of the voters said it wasn't about Obama, in VA it was about 57%. That means about 40% of the voters in NJ and 43% in VA did feel that Obama influenced their vote. That's not good, if there isn't supposed to be any cross polination of issues. Furthermore, independents, skewed sharply towards the Republicans. Independents, are the same people who voted Barack Obama in. That can't be a good sign either. Bottom line, those people didn't vote in a vacum. If this were an opposing scenario, I would say the same about the Republicans.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 3:00 PM in response to Open Thread

cargar,
lol, that was a good one. next stop American Idol.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 2:48 PM in response to Open Thread

pete,
I see what you're saying. States often have opposing party governors as a sort of counter-balance to national offices. But there are many that don't. Like New York and New Jersey to name two.
To continue to deny that the landslide victories in NJ and VA were anything but a voter push back is to deny that people often associate local politics with national issues. As they say, all politics is local. Voters are angry out there, for many reasons, economy, healthcare or jobs issues. Do you really believe that they would not take it out on the nearest voting booth? come on now!

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 2:45 PM in response to Open Thread

snappy,
FREE? ok, you win.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 2:40 PM in response to Open Thread

snappy,
hummmmm, 5 years? well, maybe not then. that's a long time to live with the fear of a tractor trailor doing a high jump into your living room.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 2:35 PM in response to Open Thread

11217,

...yet curiously enough, New Jersey was willing to live with high property taxes even through the other shenanigans like Torricelli and Florio. What changed?
at some point, you have to admit, that was a big upset.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 2:32 PM in response to Open Thread

snappy,
sure you buy it. then rent it out for profit.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 2:27 PM in response to Open Thread

biff,

don't forget about Ben Gurion or Big Ben.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 2:26 PM in response to Open Thread

pete,
lol, talk about spin. you should know by now that all talk of historical precedent in politics is only as good as the next election. remember how all those polls showed that Bush could not win in 2004, he was polling below 50%, or how Obama could not win without the South, or how New Jersey was too entrenched in the Democratic party machinery.
No, my friend, New Jersey was a 20 point swing from blue to red in 12 months. That says alot.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 2:23 PM in response to Open Thread

snappy,

that's because that was "minute" rice. nothing sexy about a 60 seconds to "fluff and done".

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 2:19 PM in response to Open Thread

biff,

I don't know, I'm kinda of leaning towards the Cat party now. they're cute, cuddly and how can you beat those tactile pads?

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 2:10 PM in response to Open Thread

snappy,
sure you change peoples minds, people even change their minds in the voting booth. why do you think they trot out all these panels of "undecided" people every November?

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 2:08 PM in response to Open Thread

11217,

yeah, good one. I guess that's why Obama's many visits to New Jersey to support Corzine were just for tea and crumpets.
the story there was of low democratic turn-out, in addition to an energized opposition. In the end the story goes like this; a deep blue state turned red.

as far as NY district 23, I see that at a major problem with party protocol. they didn't have a primary to hash these differences out (remember the differences with Hillary and Barack before their primaries), then the "republican" woman opts out and endorses the democrat.
to add further to the confusion, they leave the woman's name on the ballot (even though she's no longer in the race!) what is this? North Korea? So she manages to get 6% of the votes from idiots who vote for a candidate that is not even running. In the end, the democrat wins by 4 points.
Not a biggie, just a study in party ineptitude and a test run on how not to run an election in the future. The democrat is up again next year, let's see if he stays. My guess is he's out.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 1:58 PM in response to Open Thread

dirty hipster,

...and the smell of ben-gay (no homo) wafting through the hallways at all hours.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 1:44 PM in response to Open Thread

bxgrl,
you have to admit, NJ and VA are stinging rebukes of Obama's economic program to date.

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 1:43 PM in response to Open Thread

hi folks,

looks like I checked in just in time for the daily political battle royal.
who's in the cage match today?lol

Posted by: Legion at November 5, 2009 1:35 PM in response to Open Thread

me again,

yeah,ummm... let me restate one of my points...
In an ungentrified neighborhood, when someone tells you they are "gonna kick your ass". They do not mean it in the ironic sense. They mean just that.
In a gentrified 'hood, "kickin' ass" is just an abstract concept.

just wanted to clarify that for those of you who find yourselves in east new york or gerritsen beach on any particular Friday night.

Posted by: Legion at November 3, 2009 10:51 PM in response to Closing Bell: Gentrification Indicators

you know your neighborhood is gentrifying when...

-the local Chinese restaurant now has tables.

-the local Spanish restaurant has cuisine from Spain.

-the local Chinese restaurant doesn't serve Spanish dishes and vice versa.

-the local pizzeria refers to a plain pie as the "Margherita", and doesn't serve slices.

-mixed breed dogs are referred to as a combo breed like Labra-doodle, instead of mutt.

-there is a dog run, instead of dogs running wild and rummaging through your trash.

-when people tell you they're "gonna kick your ass", they don't mean it in the ironic sense.

-the local bar is where you go to hang out, instead of hide out.

-the local bodega stops serving customers through a plexiglass window with an attached rotating lazy susan contraption, between the hours of 11:00PM and 5:00AM. They simply close at 10:00.

Posted by: Legion at November 3, 2009 7:25 PM in response to Closing Bell: Gentrification Indicators

bxgrl,

all the more reason for all of us to vote today. even the lurkers.

Posted by: Legion at November 3, 2009 3:34 PM in response to Open Thread

bxgrl,
sure we can ask these things of people. you must know that Islam itself give many rights to women that would make these fascist imams cringe. There is a long history of strong women in Persia and throughout the middle east. what has developed in these middle eastern countries over the past hundred years is an abberation.
Turkey is a functioning muslim democracy for one. I disagree that things are the same in Iraq. for one thing, women now vote and participate in government. for another, women are involved in their communities to a much greater extent, particularly the formerly oppressed Shiite women. The Khurds in the north are no longer being gassed with chemical weapons and we have a dialogue with the government of Iraq.
Iran, recently had a failed revolution. People are chaffing at the bit there, they love the USA. I know people from Iran personally, some who escaped in the past 20 years. I personally know an Iranian Jew with a hell of a story about life there under the Ayatollahs.
sure these people want democracy, because as all of us here in the US know, it is inherent to being human to want to have the freedom to assert oneself and dream.
bxgrl, don't forget Tienamen, or more recently the Orange revolution in Ukraine.

Posted by: Legion at November 3, 2009 3:24 PM in response to Open Thread

joe from brooklyn is right.

Posted by: Legion at November 3, 2009 3:03 PM in response to Open Thread

bxgrl,
I hear what you're saying, the US shouldn't meddle so much. I agree to a certain extent. At the same time, you are asking this nation to advocate from a moral highground when the world itself is awash in thuggish dictatorships, theocratic fascist regimes and nations already on the downward slope of a long and difficult decline.
even if we were to go into an isolationist mode, do you not think that our enemies would soon find us here? Just look at the bombings in Jakarta, Mombai, Madrid and London to name a few. Even nations that backed away from a defense of western ideals, like spain, continue to get punished for being western in their make up. This global struggle is far from over, whether we want it to be over or not. Sitting back and ignoring that will only lead us to worse place.

Posted by: Legion at November 3, 2009 3:00 PM in response to Open Thread

folks,
let me be clear again,
by all means, let's reform healthcare and cover people who need covering.
but don't tell me this congress and this president are serious when they are leaving out tort reform from this 2000 page bill. it is, from that fact alone, a non-starter.
that little fact says it all.

if you will recall, a few months back when I was asking everyone to re-examine the very basis of the healthcare "reform" being pushed, the "47 million" number, they kept throwing out. Just an update, in a recent speech, President Obama himself has adjusted that number to 30 million. I continue to say it is closer to 10-15 million, if you examine the census figures closely.

Posted by: Legion at November 3, 2009 2:53 PM in response to Open Thread

ENY,
better yet, let's get to the heart of this 2000 page behemoth.
it proposes to fundamentally change healthcare in america,
but according to the congressional budget office, it will still leave millions uninsured.
it proposes to let you keep your current insurance,
but according to the details, you will no longer be able to buy private insurance by about 2013.
it proposes to cut insurance costs in the long run, but according to the congressional budget office, it will most certainly lead to increased healthcare costs over the long haul.
it proposes to be for the people, for a better society, when in actuality, it is adding an additional 18 percent of the private sector economy to the 30 percent of the economy that the government now manages, bringing the grand total to about 48 percent of the economy controlled by the government. the same government that has managed to steer medicare towards insolvency, medicaid towards insolvency and projected that social security will also be out of funds by about 2030. that's only 20 years away.

Posted by: Legion at November 3, 2009 2:47 PM in response to Open Thread

biff,
I have no doubt the United States has protected it's interests playing hardball, everywhere from Panama to Afghanistan and back. I am also under no illusion that these simple freedoms we are enjoying right now, like voicing our opinions on the internet, came at a great price, sometimes an unfair price.
but, what is our alternative when history has proven time and again that despots and tyrants will always be there to take from the many, what little they have, under the guise of a better world.

Posted by: Legion at November 3, 2009 2:42 PM in response to Open Thread

ENY,
hey, we didn't ask for 9/11, but that cost us about a trillion to our economy.
we could cede our role as primary advocate for democracy around the globe, then what would you get?
nobody said you couldn't maintain our nation's sovereignty and still cover those without healthcare;
1. tort reform
2. malpractice insurance reform
3. medical insurance reform
4. doctor adjucation courts- for bad doctors
5. interstate competition for healthcare insurance
6. stricter oversight for medicare fraud.
7. stricter oversight for madicaid fraud.
8. tax incentives for health savings accounts,

I could go on,
you could do this without adding 1 trillion to our deficit.

Posted by: Legion at November 3, 2009 2:33 PM in response to Open Thread

ENY,
for one Trillion dollars,
somebody better be gettin' some.

Posted by: Legion at November 3, 2009 2:18 PM in response to Open Thread

rob,
you can ask your doctor's office for samples. most doctor's offices have a closet just for drug samples that they get for free when the drug reps detail them about their products. used to be, a doctor could get baseball tickets right on the 1st base line or a palm pilot, now all doctors can get is sample meds. ask your doctor, or better yet, his office manager, they know where to look.

Posted by: Legion at November 3, 2009 2:07 PM in response to Open Thread

biff,
lol, no, on craigslist there is a section titled "free stuff". where people list things of value that they are throwing out. like a nice lamp or computer monitor. check it out. people throw away valuable stuff.

Posted by: Legion at November 3, 2009 2:02 PM in response to Open Thread

biff,

could be worse, you could have been listed under 'curb alert' on Craigslist.

Posted by: Legion at November 3, 2009 1:55 PM in response to Open Thread

less white people??!?!?!!

Yes that's EXACTLY what Bed Stuy needs more of:
more intolerance, fear and xenophobia.

THAT will make things better.

Posted by: bryanx at November 6, 2009 2:04 PM in response to What Does Bed Stuy Need?