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January 8, 2009
Green Roof Course at CityTech
Through City Tech's Division of Continuing Education we will be offering a course on Green Roof Design and Installation starting this January 29th at their downtown Brooklyn location.
Whether you are a DIY homeowner intrigued by the possibility of a green roof, or a future Green Roof Professional preparing for the accreditation test later this year, this course will give you the tools you need to "go green." We'll start with the basics of green roofs, and work our way into all degrees of specificity in regards to plant design and maintenance, roof membranes and drainage, and current policy and incentives.
Please follow the link below to register . . .
http://www.citytech.cuny.edu/academics/continuinged/
For City Tech's Continuing Education complete course catalog please follow the link below (green roof course listing on p.25) . . .
http://www.citytech.cuny.edu/academics/continuinged/pdf/spring09_web.pdf
Thanks and Happy New Year!
October 21, 2008
Finally Planted!
So we finally got our green roof plant test plots underway – and to reiterate this is just our phase one installation: a chance for us to observe some different plants in action prior to planting roughly two-thirds of the roof in the spring. We’ll follow up with all the plant varieties and more of the process of installation soon . . .
In the prior post, I slammed the provider of the modules we bought, Green Roof Blocks, for sending us some modules that appeared to be dirty and used. Today, I want to commend them just as forcefully for their customer service. Getting good customer service these days is incredibly difficult – but this case, Green Roof Blocks handled the situation admirably. I received apologies from both the President and the employee responsible - in addition to receiving 20 new, clean, feet-in-tact modules within a week’s time. Amazing.
In the email from the President he explained that they rarely sell modules without the plants and soil, as I had requested. The employee in charge of packaging and shipping had assumed that “the focus was to be in what grew from the module and not the aesthetics of the module itself. Instead, he trained his efforts in getting your modules to you as quickly as he knew how.” Regardless, for me, whatever error they made on the first order was more than rectified by the way they responded to our complaint. I will look to use some of the used modules as samples in class I’m teaching this January at City Tech in downtown Brooklyn on green roof installation.
I intend to review other green roof products in the future. For starters, this website has a good breakdown of the different modular options - http://www.openecosource.org/roofing/modular-green-roof-information-us-suppliers
October 15, 2008
Major Colors
A quick trip up to Sunny Border Nursery in Berlin, Connecticut yielded some great options for green roof plants – not to mention some pretty nice photos if I may say so myself! The fields of rectangular sedum flats were vast and created a beautiful pixilated effect. With over 50 varieties of sedum on hand and 150 varieties of sempervivum, I was like a kid in a candy store. I bought some flats of Sedum spurium ‘Dragons Blood’, Sedum album ‘Limelight’, Sedum sexangulare ‘Weiss Tetra’ and a just released variety Sedum ‘Chocolate Ball’.
Although Sunny Border tends to cater more to the wholesale trade, you can buy things there retail. They will also pre-grow specific plants for you if your order is placed well in advance and substantial enough.
Score.
October 8, 2008
The Modules
The green roof modules finally arrived – our first step towards planting our Brooklyn roof! They came without soil or plants in a 2 x 2 x 2 box – 20 in all. Or I guess 21 if you count the two that were stuck together. To my shock and disappointment, the green roof blocks, or modules, were old, used and even slightly damaged. They looked like they had been recycled from a previous project! Even some of the protection board footers had fallen or were falling off. As you might imagine, I was pretty upset. I mean, who does this?!?
I had heard mixed reviews about the company previously but this really made me question my decision to go with “Green Roof Blocks.” Basically the modules are just anodized aluminum planters – 4 inches deep with protection board footers so that they sit on the roof and weep holes to allow for some drainage. I thought these modules would be best for our situation because they allow for flexibility and for the fact that I could get them without the soil or plants. I wanted to find my own sources for these – both to cut down on costs while also injecting some of my own decisions on soil and plantings into this process.
These modules do have some design flaws – they are missing a drainage layer and filter fabric which would definitely make for better soil conditions and more stormwater retention. But considering our still unresolved roof situation, the positives of flexibility outweighed the negatives.
I complained to my contact at Green Roof Blocks about the product we received - they actually agreed to send me an entirely new shipment. So, assuming that really happens I am not sure what else I could reasonably expect. Delivering old, used and dirty planters sucks, but recognizing the error and fixing it goes a long way. . .
Soil’s up next. I have a nice, lightweight, expanded shale and organic mix that I’m picking up in Connecticut later this week. . . .more to follow.
October 6, 2008
11th Street Basin
Does anybody know why certain maps refer to 11th Street in South Slope as the 11th Street Basin? It is definitely not a low topographical area . . .Any ideas?
September 30, 2008
Back on Track
So . . . we're back from a summer hiatus – and things did happen – for one, our structural engineer said that the roof could hold the additional weight of an extensive green roof – about 12–15 lbs/sqft. As you may remember we are planning a green roof and deck for our private rooftop in our co-op building in Park Slope, Brooklyn. As far as the wood deck part of the design goes, after doing everything in our power to avoid having to use steel for the structure, it seems to be our only option at this point. The positive side of things is that using steel allows us to accommodate a lot more plant material – like vegetables, shrubs and even trees.
Another summer surprise is that, I became our new co-op president! I was fortunate (or unfortunate, depending on how you view the new load of responsibility) to have the departing co-op president lobby the other building shareholders on my behalf.
In any case, the new responsibility of managing the building required me to dig through the building’s pile of halfheartedly organized records – meeting minutes, old boiler info, tax documents and the like. In the most recent building inspection report I came across a full assessment of the roof condition that had been conducted in 2006. The recommendation from this inspection was to replace the roof in its entirety. At the time, in true short-sighted fashion, the co-op board decided only to patch up certain parts of the roof, leaving the long-term plan for the next group to deal with.
Our roof was installed about 15 years ago with no warranty (at least not that anyone is aware of), by a company that no longer exists. Water damage has been reported before and recently in my own observations I have noticed some bubbling up of the paint on the fourth floor hall ceiling. The roof membrane does look cracked in certain areas – specifically around certain roof penetrations and the central bulkhead. So, for our plans, what this means is that the co-op needs to install a new roof prior to us moving forward with the deck or green roof installation.
So although this throws a wrench in our timetable, we feel better knowing a new roof and waterproofing layer will be installed. Typical EPDM roofs can have about a 15 year lifespan. Putting a green roof on top of a newly installed EPDM roof will extend the life of the typical roof by two to three times – this long-term “payback” of saving on the cost of a future replacement roof is one of the bigger economic incentives green roofs have to offer. We’ll be getting roofing estimates over the next week or so – if you have any recommendations for trusted roofers we would appreciate it . . .
Due to the rapidly approaching winter, we have decided to do a “Phase One” green roof installation. With twenty 2ft x 2ft anodized aluminum trays, we will create a series of test plots. This is by no means a real integrated green roof like you would normally find – just a testing ground, a little flair, a small intervention of 80 sq ft of green onto a rooftop in Brooklyn - hey - you’ve got to start somewhere. Plus, we’ll be able to move these trays temporarily while the new roof gets installed.
This will be an experiment of sorts, to see how different plants respond to the overwintering and harsh roof conditions. The planting time is also rather late in the season and may affect the success of the plants. Technically the frost date isn’t until mid-November, but realistically the sooner the plants get established to the new soil and conditions the more plants will survive the cold winter months. We have chosen a variety of sedums, sempervivums, and delosperma as the guinea pigs. The trays are on a UPS truck as I write and we eagerly await their safe arrival . . .
Finally, some good news, as many of you I am sure know, NY State has passed a green roof initiative. Property owners will now receive a $4.50/sqft property tax abatement for every square foot of garden or green roof they install. Sponsored by Assemblyman Ruben Diaz of the South Bronx, this new initiative is a step in the right direction for Albany lawmakers. Although it is not nearly enough to boost this emerging green market, it is a start.
June 5, 2008
Yes We Can
Alright . . . I feel inspired by yesterday’s historic day. I would like to talk Green Roof Policy in NY. A good friend of mine in the policy world has been doing me a favor and following the progress of green roof bills in Albany. It’s really amazing how no one seems to have access to this information. There is such an amazing lack of transparency into our government – especially Albany. Case in point, the closed door vote made by our representatives on the congestion pricing bill - this is a maneuver enacted by our politicians to ensure that no one knows how their representative voted on the bill. There is no record or accountability. One unfortunate aspect of that bill being rejected was that a green roof initiative was pork-barreled onto it. The initiative was from Bloomberg’s PlanNYC and sought to provide a 35% tax abatement on small-scale green roof projects. My green roof policy expert reports below:
On March 31st, the NYC City Council approved the congestion pricing plan by a 30 to 20 vote, sending the bill to the state legislature for approval. On April 7th, the deadline when NYC would lose out on $354 million of federal money for mass transit improvements, the state Assembly, led by Speaker Sheldon Silver (D-64th AD, Lower East Side), killed the bill by deciding behind closed doors not to bring congestion pricing to the floor for a public vote.
The good news is that a couple of other bills have been sponsored in Albany – one of which looks particularly promising. Bill number A5449 is the one to watch. Write an email to the committee chairs to keep this moving forward.
Assemblyman Herman D. Farrell, Jr, Chair, Ways and Means Committee
See link: http://assembly.state.ny.us/mem/?ad=071&sh=con
Or email: farrelh@ assembly.state.ny.us
State Senator Carl L. Marcellino, Chair, Environmental Conservation Committee
See email: marcelli@senate.state.ny.us
Below is a description of the three bills currently sponsored.
1. Bill Number: A5449, introduced by Assembly Member Dinowitz of the West Bronx (the companion bill in the senate is S4362, sponsored by Sen. Marcellino of NW Long Island).
General Description: (1) Requires the commissioner of the Department of Environmental Conservation to develop a program to evaluate and set standards for green roof construction and certification. (2) The bill amends the tax law by providing a tax credit for the installation of roof garden of 55% of the installation cost that shall not exceed $5,000.
Current Status: On January 9, 2008 the bill was referred to the Environmental Conservation Committee. On April 15th, it was amended to its current form and recommitted to the same committee. On May 13, 2008 the bill was reported out of Environmental Conservation and referred to the Ways and Means committee. The progress and movement of the bill is promising.
This bill has a companion bill in the Senate (and I’m told you need both houses to pass bills successfully before they can go to the governor for his approval), so . . . this bill currently has the best chances of being passed into law. We are definitely exited about this although, I can’t help but wondering if $5,000 is enough? First of all, in order to get a credit, you‘ll have to enter into the permit process at the DOB which should cost x amount of dollars and cause x amount of headaches. The bill is definitely intended only for the residential green roof owner - no commercial developer is going to give a hoot about a 5K tax abatement. But, hey . . we’ll take it. It’s a step in the right direction. Another incentive that seems to have been effective elsewhere is a fast-track DOB permitting process for green roof projects (see Portland, Oregon’s Office of Sustainable Development).
2. Bill Number: S6390, introduced by State Senator Serrano who represents N. Bronx, E. Harlem and Roosevelt Island. This has no companion bill in the assembly.
General Description: Any taxpayer shall be allowed a credit for the installation of a green roof. The amount of the credit shall be 55% of qualified green roof installation expenditures, but shall not exceed the maximum credit of $10,000.
Current Status: On January 9, 2008 the bill was referred to the Environmental Conservation Committee, where it still sits. The lack of progress of the bill likely means it will not move forward, possibly because of the larger maximum credit. It also currently has no companion bill in the assembly, which is necessary to be passed into law.
3. Bill Number: A10234, introduced by Assemblyman Ruben Diaz, Jr, who represents the 85th AD in the Southeast Bronx. This has no companion bill in the senate.
General Description: Amends property tax law to : (1) Provide a tax abatement for $6.75 per square foot of installation of a green roof or maintenance of a green roof, not to exceed $100,000 or the tax liability of the eligible building, whichever is less. (2) Provide requirements for maintaining a green roof as a condition of receiving the tax abatement for three years, which can be revoked if proper maintenance isn't followed.
Current Status: On March 11, 2008 the bill was referred to the Real Property Taxation Committee, where it still sits. It also currently has no companion bill in the senate, which is necessary to be passed into law.
May 14, 2008
Green-Brownstones
We thought this seminar on Greening your Brownstone might be of interest to a lot of you. . . .Check it out this Saturday, May 17 from 1 to 5 pm!
New York City College of Technology
Division of Continuing Education presents:
Anatomy of a Brownstone: Green Roofs, Green Homes
A seminar devoted to the art and science of sustainable homes, NYC style
Saturday, May 17 1 to 5 pm
HHT 074 $40
25 Chapel Street (at Tillary) Howard Building Room 108
To Register:
Phone: 718 552 1170 Fax 718 552 1194 email:
kramlal@citytech.cuny.edu
Information: dsalomon@citytech.cuny.edu
Learn about green roofs, energy audits, whole house design, and
sustainable building products from experts and professionals in the
green design and build community. Discover how to save energy, reduce
waste, and increase the overall comfort of your home.
Speakers
How your home uses and loses energy 1:00 to 2:00pm
Larry Ubell, WNYC’s “Guru of How To” will show the important steps to
minimizing energy waste in your home.
Raising the Green Roof 2:00 to 3:00 Tony Caggiano is the owner of plant
connections and the NYC green roof installer for Green Living
Technologies. He’ll explain how green roofs are grown, installed and
maintained and how they can help your budget and the environment.
Landscape Architect David Seiter, will show examples of urban, public
projects and high-end residential green roof projects, from Brooklyn to
Singapore.
Panel Discussion: Small and large ways to green your home 3:00 to 4:00
pm
Gita Nandan, GreenHome NYC http://www.greenhomenyc.org
Rolf Grimstead Developer, 93 Nevins “Health House” http://93nevins.com/
Jeff Honerkamp, CEO Honerkamp Lumber, LEED supplier
James Garrison, Principal, James Garrison Architects
Kris Reed, Brooklyn Center for Economic Development
Green House Tours: 4:00 to 5:00pm
Greg Todd, developer and James Garrison, an Architect who has been
building green for several years, will show examples from completed and
in progress projects and explains that building sustainably does not
mean losing style. They’ll focus on the wide array of fixtures and
materials that can create a handsome, healthy interior.
Meet and Greet: Representatives from the NYSERDA Energy Smart Program
will be on hand to distribute flyers and share energy saving tips.
April 26, 2008
Go Green Expo
Just a quick note to say that if you are interested, you should check out the Go Green Expo this weekend. . . .
There will be some green roof and green wall suppliers on hand with their products.
The Hilton New York
Saturday 10am-6pm • Sunday 10am-3pm
See the project below from Seoul, Korea by Mass Studies Architects using G-Sky Living Wall Panels . . . A similar product by Green Living Technologies will be on hand at the expo . . .
April 22, 2008
Into the Ceiling
So even though Spring is here . . . We're still inside trying to figure things out. Our next step was to determine the structural load capability of the roof in order to determine how to proceed with getting the deck and green roof built. So we had to go into the ceiling and look at the beams.
I was excited to inspect the roof from below – to see the size and condition of the beams holding up our roof and measure their spacing. I choose the side of the skylight to cut into the drywall so that it would be least intrusive. It would also allow us to look above the ceiling without actually cutting into it. After removing a 10” x 18” drywall piece in the side of the skylight niche, I caught a faceful of some really old air. I mean who knows when this space was last open?
What we found was true 3” x 7” beams that are spaced 24” apart on center. From what I understand this is not great news . . . the depth of the beam is the key number here and seven is just not that impressive. New wood decks are often framed off of 2x12s spaced 18” to 24” on center . . . in other words with a lot more load capability.
On the positive side, the quality and integrity of the beams seemed intact; with no dampness etc., though one of the beams looks like it had some water staining at some point. Everything up there now seems dry as a bone. We actually have about 12 inches of space between the ceiling and the roof, which means we could raise our ceilings if we wanted to. Right now, it’s not even a consideration, with all our money and resources devoted to the green roof project.
One key thing to note, the load-bearing walls do not extend to the ceiling (12 feet) but stop at the fourth floor ceiling (11 feet). In this case, the load-bearing walls are the interior walls that run down the center of the building separating our apartment from our 4th floor neighbor. So what that means is that we will consider cutting into the roof and building up that load bearing wall to form a 2’ high parapet in middle of the roof. We would then frame the deck, and if need be, the green roof off this parapet and the side parapet.
But, we still have a lot of questions - What can we expect to pay for building up a 2’ parapet from the load bearing wall? How does this differ price-wise from using steel? We would like to still consider using steel, but want to know the price differential between these options. Is steel two times more expensive or ten times more expensive? Will the 3x7s at 24 inches on center be enough to support the 17 lbs/sq ft of the green roof modules?
Author's Comments
Actually, I have a Masters degree in Landscape Architecture and have been working in the business for 12 years. I never purported not to know anything about green roofs - I just chose not to share my degree and experience on the blog so as not to intimidate the everyday person working on their own green roof.
I have worked on green roof projects in India, Singapore, as well as stateside in Philadelphia, New York and the Hamptons. Feel free to review my work and CV by following this link: www.futuregreenstudio.com
I think if you had read my posts, you would see that the blog is full of specific information on green roofs as well as the trials and tribulations of getting a project like this done in a co-op building in Brooklyn. Granted we would like to have had a completed project right now, but we had some issues with our co-op building that were well beyond our control and delayed the start of the project. In any case, we'll be posting our new design on Monday.
As for the Green Roof Course at City Tech - it could be taken in preparation for the accreditation test being offered by Green Roofs for Healthy Cities (GRFHC). GRFHC also offers preparation courses for this test - but they are more expensive than my course and are often taught by product suppliers, not green roof designers or installers. Drop me a line at greenroofguy@gmail.com if you would like more information about the course.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at January 10, 2009 3:13 PM in response to Closing Bell: Green Roof Course at CityTech
Todd - I've been meaning to post on the soil. Its a mixture of 90% expanded shale and clay and 10% organic content. There is no drainage layer in this system - which is definitely a negative. Still I like their flexibility and the weep holes seem to be draining things fine so far. The saturated weight is about 15 lbs/sqft.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at November 6, 2008 1:11 PM in response to Finally Planted!
Yes - the class will be through CUNY - City Tech in downtown Brooklyn and open to about 20 people. There isn't a registration link online yet but I will post one when it becomes available - supposedly just after Christmas.
The class will focus on green roof design and installation. It will begin in January and run through early March. In addition to the hands-on classes, we will be taking a couple of field trips to local projects and nurseries.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at November 6, 2008 1:06 PM in response to Finally Planted!
Depending on your roof height, method of installation and product used your prices can range from $15 to $35/sqft . . . $20/sqft is a safe number to budget for . . .
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at October 26, 2008 10:43 AM in response to Finally Planted!
New2 - Sure drop me an email at greenroofguy@gmail.com
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at October 21, 2008 8:37 AM in response to The Modules
Putnam - I like your point - but obviously when you pay money for something, you want to get what's advertised. If they had wanted to send me the used modules at half price, I would have jumped at the opportunity to use the recycled modules.
In the end, we paid half-price anyway, because they sent us replacements. We'll use the old modules to start, because as you mentioned, we're covering it with soil and plants - so who really cares?
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at October 11, 2008 8:50 AM in response to The Modules
Marie Brown - All the plants selected are drought-tolerant, xeriscape plants that should be fully healthy without any irrigation at all. In regards to the drainage of the trays, there are weep holes as I mentioned, just no eggshell drainage layer that some of the planted in place green roof systems have. The advantage of the eggshell layer is that it holds more of the intial first flush of stormwater and allows that water to slowly evapotranspire up into the soil media - acting like a kind of perlite that slowly releases moisture into the soil.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at October 8, 2008 9:50 PM in response to The Modules
Prices also vary based on total square footage of your roof in addition to accessibility - i.e. a 10,000 sqft green roof on the first floor could be $10/sqft, while a 200 sqft green roof on the 20th floor could be $35/sqft - it all just depends on your site and the conditions.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at October 8, 2008 9:42 PM in response to The Modules
Denton - Like all government programs with their red tape, getting the tax abatement can be difficult. Meaning that there are many contigencies to doing so - for example greening at least 50% of your roof space, or using only drought tolerant species like sedums, sempervivums, and delosperma. There are also specifications to the types of layers that you use. I'll be posting on that in more detail soon.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at October 8, 2008 9:36 PM in response to The Modules
I am a landscape architect and green roof designer - If you want, check out my website below:
www.futuregreenstudio.com
And yes, this is my own baby and financially we are trying to do things as cost-effectively as possible. . .We're excited about sharing our way of negotiating the costs, design and environmental factors of this project.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at October 8, 2008 1:55 PM in response to Back on Track
In terms of general costs - your looking at about $20/square foot.
I would be happy to share more specific costs by email - I'm at greenroofguy@gmail.com
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at October 8, 2008 1:16 PM in response to The Modules
Aha! I guess that's the one right next to the dump and lowes - Thanks for the info.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at October 6, 2008 2:37 PM in response to 11th Street Basin
Peter - Yes - that is correct.
The green roof tax abatement provides for an abatement of $4.50 per square foot, up to $100,000. You would get a one-time property tax abatement to cover installation costs. It is anticipated that this abatement would cover 25% of the installation cost of the green roof - with most applications costing about $20/sqft.
In terms of who deems it "green", I am not entirely sure how this is going to be handled yet. Eventually it will be an accredited Green Roof Professional but this accreditation test is still in development but is expected to be offered in 2009.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at October 1, 2008 7:14 PM in response to Back on Track
denton - Thanks for the recommendation - I'll check it out.
The project I think you are referring to was done by Cook and Fox architects. They installed the green paks system from a company called Green Roof Blocks - basically it is just soil in a bag and then you plant the bag once it is on the roof. It's as basic as you can get and most people in the industry would not recommend that product. First of all you can see the black bag. Secondly, the plants don't have a lot of soil room to spread out laterally.
I still think it looks nice though . . . check it out
http://www.greenroofs.com/projects/pview.php?id=670
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at October 1, 2008 6:57 PM in response to Back on Track
It sounds like getting the board to hire an appraiser is the way to go . . . Here is the link:
Also see this except from a times Q and A about selling roof rights in a coop . . .
the board should also get an appraisal to determine the appropriate charge for the new shares and should amend the proprietary leases of the shareholders who purchase those shares to include, as part of the apartment descriptions, the additional roof space.
The board should also make it clear what rights are conferred on the shareholders who buy shares allocated to the roof.
In other words, the board should specify if the roof can be used only for recreational purposes -- a deck, for example -- or if it can be used to construct additional living space for the owners who buy the additional shares.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at July 17, 2008 2:35 AM in response to roof rights in a condo?
The NYT had an article a couple months ago in the real estate section - they cited roof space values as 10% to 50% of the interior sq ft values of your apartment . . . You should try to negotiate for lower end of that since the space is undeveloped.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at July 17, 2008 2:17 AM in response to roof rights in a condo?
Definitely go with a structural engineer . . . its essential. The platform vs spanning steel beam question is something only the engineer can advise you on - but you will have a lot more flexibility if you use a spanning system. . . .
For instance, you could use concrete pavers instead of trex (and therefore deck more than 20% of your roof that using wood or composite limits you to.) You'll also be able to have planters with good size shrubs, and not worry when you have ten guests over whether the extra weight is causing some unforeseen damage to your roof membrane . . .
Also anything like a deck or a green roof that covers the roof membrane from sun and heat exposure will extend the life of the roof by a number of years. You might want to consider these long-term savings when considering the overall budget of the project.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at July 2, 2008 11:46 PM in response to Roof Decks: Input on Materials and Structure?
Doing my best to get the word out about the policy issues . . . Policy is really the only force that is going to enable New York to go green on a substantial scale.
I thought your questions were great. And to be honest, a lot of people in the industry are asking the same things. This is what I can tell you for sure:
1. In order to qualify for a rebate, you will need to file your green roof project with the DOB (or potentially a state-certified independent inspector). I don't believe that there will be a vendor list (i.e. like the solar process).
2. There will be a Green Roof accreditation test offered in 2009 by an independent non-profit organization. At some point down the line (5-7 years?) this could be adopted as a national standard and Green Roof Professionals could be organized much like ALSA or AIA are for landscape architects and architects.
3. Initially, contractors might charge more if they know the consumer is getting a rebate but as more and more green roof businesses emerge, competition will be a bigger factor than it is now. Eventually as the industry gets standardized and green roofs are more widely understood, I think you can expect the price of materials and installation to go down.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at June 9, 2008 8:59 PM in response to Yes We Can
Things have been a bit topsy-turvy as of late in having to negotiate between our co-op board, the engineers and our own wishes.
In reality, everything would’ve/could’ve happened much sooner if we weren’t trying to do this in the most inexpensive way possible - and procrastinating because of it . . . The project would be already be installed if we were only going for the green roof - our structural engineer said that the roof could hold the additional weight of a lightweight green roof application – about 12–15 lbs/ sq ft.
Unfortunately, we're in a holding pattern right now because of a few things beyond our control. Our goal is to get everything back up and running after this weekend.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at June 9, 2008 8:38 PM in response to Yes We Can
Yes . . . Totally . . .in Williamsburg, on N. 4th between Bedford and Driggs.
This system was installed using GLT panels (Green Living Technology out of Rochester, NY) . . .The only difficult things about these walls is the irrigation systems . . .otherwise the panels are modules that hang on brackets mounted on the supporting wall.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at May 1, 2008 1:43 PM in response to Go Green Expo
We're still considering whether we will do green roof modules or a more integrated green roof system. We're leaning toward the modules
because of the flexibility of removal in case of a leak and the ease of installation.
I like working with my hands and getting into the soil so I am less inclined to get the "full package" that many places offer with pre-mixed and pre-grown plant material. We definitely want control over the plant selection, design and installation.
Working with modules - for both the green roof and deck may be the way to cut down on the time and cost of installation.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at April 23, 2008 11:15 AM in response to The Meeting
I love hearing about how you are doing this yourself. Even if things aren't 100 percent perfect (i.e. seams butting together), it looks like it is coming together really nicely - the butcher clock especially. In a world of bought things, it must be so much more rewarding to know that you did the work yourself and that your sweat equity created your new kitchen.
Any info on the durability of the butcher block? Can you cut on it? Any idea of the price per sq ft?
Thanks
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at April 9, 2008 10:54 PM in response to Kitchen Chronicles, Part 2
I love the discussion about alternatives and costs and I don’t mind the questioning, or the open discussion about how we should spend our money. None of that bothers me.
I would love to hear some info that isn’t hearsay or conjecture about costs and fees . . . Can anyone share their direct experience with getting a project (roof or otherwise) permitted? What percentage of the total construction budget were the architect/permit fees? Thanks.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at April 4, 2008 11:59 AM in response to The Meeting
We love doing this blog and we love to see people commenting and giving their own two cents - whether we agree with it or not. Playground Pad Guy - thank you for your sensitive post. You're right, its not always easy to take the criticism - but I do know it comes with the territory.
You know I read the reno blogs here religiously before my wife and I had the opportunity to write own own story, so I definitely had an idea of what I was getting into.
Brooklynites feel passionate about their home and real estate. It is a true passion that runs deep - like the overeager father who can't help but yell at their kids on the sports field.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at April 4, 2008 12:04 AM in response to The Meeting
Well, the truth is we live in a co-op. So everything that goes up there would have to be permitted anyway. There's no getting around paying for that.
And as to the idea of of playground pads? It's not a bad product but the way your talking about using it seems really boring. I've seen many a playground pad "garden" in Brooklyn and I guess that just doesn't do it for me. We are the type of people who care about a well-designed environment.
We also know that if we do ever want to sell our place the investment in the roof should bring quite a significant return.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at April 3, 2008 8:23 AM in response to The Meeting
Yes . . . anytime you do new construction or renovation there are opportunities of uncovering things you didn't expect to find. I think that's just part of the process. We have had both a home inspector and a structural engineer look at our apartment and our building to verify its structural capabilities. I'm not really sure what else we should do given that we are not trained in structural engineering.
What we do know is the fact is that green roofs have been tested and vetted over the last 35 years in Europe and otherwise. Empirical data proves the validity and reliability of both intensive and extensive systems.
And yes, the 17lbs/sq ft number is a "fully saturated" number (snow, wind, rain or otherwise) for four inches of soil plus plants and drainage materials. This information comes straight from the manufacturer but I could also point you to numerous resources that verify this data.
In regards to painting your roof white . . .uhhh no - that would be silver. And silver would do a lot to lower your buildings reflectivity and thus general heat absorption, but as discussed on his blog previously, that is not the primary advantage of green roofs.
The benefits of green roofs are numerous, from extending the life of your roof from two to three times to the insulation benefits of having vegetation on your roof (an R8 value for all you energy nerds.) In Park Slope, perhaps none is more important than the issue of stormwater retention. Are you aware that anytime we get more than a tenth of an inch of rainfall our storm drains combine with our sewage in CSOs and go directly into the Gowanus Canal?
When you begin to think long term, typical roofs do not even begin to compare to green roofs. You just have to ask yourself: Do I want to build a Roman cobble road that lasts for a thousand years or do I want to build a typical American asphalt road that needs to be replaced every five years?
I hope that with the advent of global warming into mainstream consciousness our country has begun to move beyond the need for immediate gratification and begin to look towards the long range plan. Idealistic, maybe. . . Possible, definitely.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at April 3, 2008 12:03 AM in response to The Meeting
Hmmm . . . I've never heard of any mosquito problems. The eggshell layer that retains the water is under a couple of inches of soil and plant material.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at March 9, 2008 10:28 AM in response to Judgement Day . . . Maybe
As long as they are true perennials, the optimum time to plant here is between March 15th through May 1st . ..any earlier and you run the risk of frozen ground and morning frost conditions . . .
Considering how volatile the weather has been it might even make sense to wait until April 1st this year . . . .
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at March 7, 2008 2:16 PM in response to When To Start Planting?
3:19 . . . Well, for stormwater purposes you do want to retain the water . . . so screens wouldn't work. But, you're right, although I like this product for other reasons, the drainage is not ideal.
In other better-designed drainage systems, there is an eggshell-like mat that is separated from the soil by filter fabric. The filter fabric allows the water to drain through while retaining the soil. The eggshells act as mini cisterns, catching the water and allowing it to evapotranspire back into the plants roots over time.
If I lived in Portland or Seattle I might not be inclined to use this product because of the potential drainage issues, but in New York, 4 inches of lightweight soil in a tray elevated from the surface and on a roof, will actually dry out pretty quick.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at March 6, 2008 11:06 PM in response to Judgement Day . . . Maybe
Heatherie . . .your absolutely right. I mistakenly posted 65 lbs/sq ft instead of 65 lbs/cubic ft. . .and thanks for the ipe with a non-ipe frame calc of 11/15 lbs/ sq ft. I am not sure how to estimate for furniture and people. . . All questions for the structural engineer.
I found the ipe weight info here:
http://www.ipe-wood.com/tech.html
It seems like a pretty good resource. Does anyone have other sustainable ipe suppliers websites/contact info?
Also, I love the brownstone roof weight load information . . .Where is that info coming from? Even though our building is not a brownstone I imagine the width is similar/longer and the roof load similar . . .
To the previous poster: Did I catch that right? Are you in Australia? If so, thats awesome . . . comment, and let us know what you find out about green roofs in the down under.
Thanks
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at March 5, 2008 10:16 PM in response to Making Progress
I am planning to post in the near future on sustainability and ipe . . . I still don't know how I feel about it . . .
12:21 is right . . .There are sustainable ipe loggers and suppliers. Also when calculating carbon footprint ipe may in fact be more sustainable than a lot of more local woods due to its incredible longevity and short, fast growing cycle . . .I am interested to hear if anyone knows any more about this . . .
Thanks.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at February 14, 2008 1:16 PM in response to Making Progress
That looks really classy; like it could have always been that way. You guys do beautiful work.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at February 10, 2008 1:00 AM in response to Sometimes I give in...
I'm excited at the conversation so far and definitely plan on addressing many of these questions and ideas as we move along in the process. I will though speak to a couple of things that really caught my attention.
I loved the comments about the wind. The wind howls over the ridge in this area. I've been up there and felt like I was going to blow away. Whatever we design as a shade structure will definitely need to take this major environmental factor into account. I'll also be looking into small wind-turbines . . .
Green Roofs can be walked on. Gently. They are kind of like Japanese Gardens in that you can walk on the moss but when you're next to it you know you really shouldn't. Actually though, a little bit of walking can help propagate certain sedums, as each individual "leaf" can become its own new plant. Oh, and green roofs don't need irrigation (except perhaps right at the seeding phase).
I believe that Ipe, a Brazilian hardwood, is rated non-combustible and therefore can be used on the entire roof if so desired. And I thought that 33% of your entire roof surface could be a wood deck? Can anyone confirm? Ipe, though completely amazing as a deck material is actually from a rainforest tree and therefore not at all sustainable. It is gorgeous and so smooth and not splintery. In this case, what is right and what is beautiful is not one in the same.
In regards to the co-op, we are putting together a package and will be talking with our board very soon. We will be presenting this project for what it is, a benefit to the long term health of the building. But more on that later . . .
And the Master Suite? I wish . . . But definitely a no-go.
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at January 17, 2008 10:21 AM in response to Going Green
Responses to Author's Forum Comments
Really? because Google maps, Probably might be a little inaccurate only mentions the basin between 6th and 7th Avenue, strangely says only "11th street" between 5th and 6th, unlike other streets which only mention street names between 4th and 5th, and 6th and seventh.
Posted by: funstraw at October 6, 2008 3:29 PM in response to 11th Street Basin
Finstraw,
The google map you are looking at is incorrect. Click on the satellite image and you will see the basin extending into the canal on what would be the extension of 11h street.
Posted by: SJ at October 6, 2008 4:33 PM in response to 11th Street Basin
farther up on 11th, there is supposedly an underground stream running down one side of the street. I wonder if it originally drained into the "basin".
Posted by: Sisophys at April 21, 2009 9:49 AM in response to 11th Street Basin
It is on page 25 of the PDF after you follow the link above . . . Or shoot me an email at greenroofguy@gmail.com and I would be happy to send you the catalog. Thank you!
Posted by: Green Roof Guy at January 15, 2009 10:26 AM in response to Green Roof Course at CityTech