Gosha's Profile

  • Chudilo
  • 1991
  • 2006
  • Brooklyn
  • Park Slope
  • Co-op
  • IT Professional
  • Male
  • 31

Author's Posts

March 9, 2009

Oil vs Gas as 2nd stage

We currently have a single pipe steam system that heats 3 adjacent 16 apt buildings. (for a total of about 48apts)
The source of the heat and hot water is a single large oil burning boiler.

In an effort to make the system more efficient, we are considering adding 3 individual water heaters
to allow us not to run the Steam boiler in the summer.
We would however like to utilize the heat from the boiler when it is available in the winter.
This can be accomplished by connecting the water heaters after the boiler.

Our plumber has advised us that we use modern Gas Water heaters as they will be easier to maintain.
This however will require us to redo the piping as the Gas boilers are supposedly not allowed to be
in the same room as the big Boiler.

Luckily the individual buildings have old flues from coal days, which can probably be relined and used again.

Is there any benefit to getting gas heaters other then them being more common?

December 14, 2008

Using the main boiler for Heating Water or can we add a second stage

Our Coop uses the main boiler to heat water year round.

We have a large Steam boiler. With a relatively modern burner. I believe the this boiler type is called and indirect boiler. Meaning the (chemically treated) boiler water is never mixed in with the water supply.

My question is: is it really necessary to heat up the huge amount of water in the boiler to get hot running water? Also it usually takes a while before that hot water gets to where it's needed, would having a small boiler ready to go improve the situation?
Is it possible to connect a small boiler in sequence to the big one? Meaning if the large boiler already made heat and heated water, then use that water for the hotwater supply, and If the water coming from the big boiler is not hot then heat it in the small boiler.
Or if for example it's is the peak of hot water usage and the small boiler is not keeping up with the hot water demand could it signal the Big boiler controller to make hot water and then mix that with the water from the smaller boiler.

December 9, 2008

Medium size coop heating system advice

I think I should address this directly to Master Plvmber, but I would love to hear anything any other steam heat experts might advise.

I am on a board of a medium sized coop which consists of 3 attached buildings 16 apartments each. The buildings are from 1914 or older.
The 3 buildings are heated by a single Steam boiler through a one pipe steam system.
The boiler is about the size of a steam locomotive. The burner has been updated to a modern burner and as of 2 weeks ago controlled by a brand new MPC Platinum HeatTimer controller. I am a fairly technical person myself and heave taken it upon myself to figure out what is needed to make this system into an efficient one.
1. My first priority was to have the old mechanical HeatTimer controller replaced with an electronic one , so that we could really see and control what is going on. When the controller got replaced, the person (who is a knowledgeable plumber) installed the system temperature sensor on the condensate return pipe in a room near the boiler. I believe that to be incorrect, and that it is supposed to be installed at one of the return pipes on one of the far ends of the system. That way "Heat established" state can be accurately determined.

2. The building directly above the boiler always ends up being overheated. We have replaced all TSV valves in the building at the start of the last heating season but that apparently isn't enough as the boiler keeps enough fresh steam in the risers to overheat the building. At the same time the far ends of the system are usually getting just enough heat to be comfortable. As far as I understand that is because the heat balance is set high to make the burn cycle long enough for the steam to get to the far ends of the system. My question is , can a one pipe system like this be split up into zones? I know HeatTimer sells Motorized Thermostatic valves. Could those be used to shut off the steam from the building that is above the boiler to pass the steam pressure over to the other buildings ?

Author's Comments

This place would've been more suitable for a Buy Buy Baby (let the big box store supporter flaming commence)

Posted by: Gosha at October 14, 2009 4:39 PM in response to Streetlevel: Laytner's Latest Location is in the Slope

How much did you pay in closing fees? Everyone always pretends to give you a great rate with 0 points and then just absorb like 1/8th of a point in the fees (which most people don't usually question). Since this is a coop property the fees should have been minimal , less then $2000.

Posted by: Gosha at September 2, 2009 5:16 PM in response to Universal Mortgage rocks!

You can't go wrong with Toto.
You can find something comparable, but then you have to spend the time evaluating every bit of each to determine if you are willing to compromise one thing or another. Make sure you don't commit to anything until you sit on it.
So to your original question if you want a brand name, Toto is it.

Posted by: Gosha at September 2, 2009 1:05 PM in response to Toilet recommendations

We had a more difficult problem. There was a steam pipe in the corner so we had to get a tub that was less then 5ft.

I highly recommend Kohler Greek Tub. You can get one from Home depot(custom order) the one on 24th St in the city has one on display or homecenter.com

Don't bother with the pillow accessory. It's not comfortable.
If you want I can sell you mine (unused).

Posted by: Gosha at June 3, 2009 2:50 PM in response to searching for the right bathtub.

I got new French doors (maple) 8ft with laminated obscured glass from Dyke's lumber. Worth every penny.

Posted by: Gosha at June 3, 2009 2:44 PM in response to Parlor Door

I think it's a flux capacitor :)

Posted by: Gosha at March 15, 2009 5:52 PM in response to What kind of tool is this.

I don't think the boiler controller (Even though it is the latest Heat Timer Platinum) is smart enough to do a "gentler" burn cycle to just heat water. I still don't understand how you intend to control the burn cycles vs water in the holding tank.

We just had a Holby mixing valve installed so that the superheated boiler water would get mixed in with cold water in order to keep it at a nice stable temperature at the faucets.

Now, I do agree with you that the longer cycles that are a lot farther apart may be more efficient but that probably depends on how much water is being used at a particular time. Meaning it's probably about the same or worse at peak times, and better during long idle times.

Ideally the pump would circulate the water through the boiler's coil while the boiler water is hotter then the water in the holding tank. Once that is reversed the pump would stop until the water in the holding tank would be drained to a set level OR the boiler is fired again because the water in the tank got bellow some set temperature.
Does that sound like something that can be done?

Posted by: Gosha at March 13, 2009 12:58 AM in response to Oil vs Gas as 2nd stage

Master Plvmber, so what you are saying is that longer burns that are farther apart are more efficient then shorter burns closer together? How so?
The boiler is a very large heavy gauge steel boiler, so I'm guessing that if it is allowed to cool, heating it all up again at each burn cycle will waste heat. If I am mistaken in my logic, please explain.

Second thing, you recommended to add a holding tank near the boiler with a circulating pump. That will extract as much heat out of the boiler as possible while it is hot and then shut down? What happens when the water in the boiler is cooler then in the holding tank? Can the holding tank trigger the boiler controller to turn on the boiler when the water level goes bellow a certain point?

Posted by: Gosha at March 11, 2009 1:19 PM in response to Oil vs Gas as 2nd stage

My parents used a slab of white marble.
It wasn't extremely expensive because they cut it out of a left over piece and It looks VERY nice.

Posted by: Gosha at March 3, 2009 3:52 PM in response to Ideas for Fireplace Tiles

Coworker called empire in Westchester.
It was a waste of time.
The person who showed up could not give a price quote or anything , said that a commitment would be needed before they would give them a price. They were looking for oak or bamboo floors.

I had a good experience with Verrazano flooring (for restoration of my original floors) They were very professional. But you need to watch them to make sure they do things do not take shortcuts that effect the final result.

Posted by: Gosha at March 3, 2009 3:49 PM in response to "Empire Today" flooring company?

Definitely Verrazano flooring, but make sure you do a careful inspection after they are done.

Posted by: Gosha at January 6, 2009 11:52 AM in response to Wood floor repair?

You Can get Plywood with walnut veneer on the outside layers.
You'll just need to cover the edge with a special narrow edging veneer (yes you can get that in real walnut as well)
That is you you want to make these yourself.

Posted by: Gosha at January 6, 2009 11:49 AM in response to Solid Wood Shelves

I would recommend thick plywood instead of solid wood.
It will hold up better over time.

Posted by: Gosha at January 6, 2009 11:38 AM in response to Solid Wood Shelves

If you have never owned a house and have never dealt with a significant renovation; if you are not a construction worker yourself; this is not a project for you.

You can do that, if you have the money for an architecht to design the renovation for you and watch over what the contractors will actually do.

Dealing with contractors is a full-time job.

Posted by: Gosha at January 6, 2009 11:29 AM in response to renovation, and insanity

I prefer to make this sort of information public domain. What do you have in mind? Is it something that was not mentioned on here yet?

Posted by: Gosha at December 19, 2008 6:54 PM in response to Using the main boiler for Heating Water or can we add a second stage

Yes this is a modern radiator. Most plumbing stores would have it.

Posted by: Gosha at December 19, 2008 6:47 PM in response to Wanted: Radiator

Check out Dyke's Lumber.

Posted by: Gosha at December 19, 2008 6:43 PM in response to Where to get Brownstone Entrance Doors

The reason we went with the MPC Platinum unit is because we eventually want to be able to monitor the system's operation over time. Meaning once the return water temperature sensor is installed properly, we will hopefully also add ambient temperature overrides as recommended by MP.
That will effectively create a way for us to see what the temperatures throughout the buildings do during and after each boiler burn. That will point out if and how we could optimize the operation of the existing boiler with the current one pipe steam system. Perhaps see how much heat we loose by not having insulated pipes and how long does it take for the radiators to cool after a burn.

We have rebalanced the TRVs during the last season. That helped quite a bit. However the current configuration still does not respond to weather changes correctly without human intervention. Meaning we are constantly over/under-heated every time the weather changes significantly. Someone needs to adjust that every time.

While I realize that the current system is very primitive and that we can not do much with what we have I believe we can prevent the boiler from running when the buildings have already been heated sufficiently. That will conserve some oil, save us money (I doubt oil prices will stay where they are right now, after what we have seen over the summer) , and hopefully prevent any more crud from being released into the air for no reason.

With regards to Ari, he's pretty useless as far as managing managing projects is concerned! For ex. it took him 3 months to make me a nametag. We've been fighting with him to manage projects for us for years, many were not even acknowledged with a phone call. The ones that were, quickly turned into disasters. The only reason we're still with him is the fact that he's honest, which I can not say about other management companies we've been with, over the years.

Posted by: Gosha at December 16, 2008 5:54 PM in response to Using the main boiler for Heating Water or can we add a second stage

MP I just wanted to clarify that the setup is in a 48 unit coop. As I understand it, the electronic thermostat would measure the temperature of the water in the tank and if needed would signal the Boiler controller for a burn cycle. Currently it is done by a mechanical water level gizmo that is Quite old. It would then pump the water through the coil again and then wait again.
Would this tank store the superheated water that is to be mixed with city-water, or is this ready for distribution throughout the building?

How would this work in a high demand scenario ?
Everything would still go through the boiler, and be electrically pumped into the tank. Then from the tank would it be mixed in with cold water directly from city like it is today.

Posted by: Gosha at December 16, 2008 1:04 PM in response to Using the main boiler for Heating Water or can we add a second stage

Thank you, MP. You're my hero. I knew there was something extremely odd about this whole setup. I do have one more concern though, is there a way to electronically ensure that the water in the storage tank does not go bellow a certain temperature, and what can be done when it does.

Currently the boiler is so massive that the top of the burn chamber stores enough water for a considerable amount of time. When you combine that with what mixing this water with cold water gets us, the boiler only fires about once an hour. How long would an insulated tank keep the water hot?

Posted by: Gosha at December 15, 2008 3:36 PM in response to Using the main boiler for Heating Water or can we add a second stage

We do not have a separate holding tank.
The boiler is about the size of a steam locomotive and as I was saying it boils it's own chemically treated water.
The supply water then goes through a coil in the boiler absorbing the heat from the boiler water. The very hot water then comes out of the boiler and is mixed with cooler water from the water supply via a mixing valve (which happens to not be working well at this time, as the temperature is very inconsistent).

So are you saying that we could add a separate water Heater with a holding tank ? Could we still use the main boiler for hot water during the heating season? How would that work ?

Posted by: Gosha at December 15, 2008 11:43 AM in response to Using the main boiler for Heating Water or can we add a second stage

It's a coil in the boiler.

Posted by: Gosha at December 15, 2008 8:11 AM in response to Using the main boiler for Heating Water or can we add a second stage

An easy way to ensure that the general contractor doesn't put your particular job on the backburner is to make sure that the cost of finishing the job is equal or less then what you currently still owe him.
Idealy if you get into this sort of a situation, get a second contractor in for an estimate. then do not pay your current contractor until he catches up with the balance of what's left to what he has already done.
That will essentially reverse your situation. Meaning he will have to compete for you giving the rest of the job to him.

Posted by: Gosha at December 14, 2008 7:30 PM in response to When do you dump your contractor?

Yes MP is exactly right. The sensor is measuring the temperature on the return pipe.When an adjustable temperature is reached, HeatTimer considers all radiators in the building to be hot AKA "Heat established". From that point HeatTimer starts counting down the minutes to boiler shutdown based on the letter designated heat-balance setting (also configurable).

I'm in Windsor Terrace (Near Bartel Pritchard Square that's a circle :) )

Posted by: Gosha at December 13, 2008 6:35 PM in response to Medium size coop heating system advice

From what I saw during construction, I bet you'll hear your neighbors like they're in the same room. Although they may have some sort of new sound insulation that I've never seen, but I'm not a pro in the field.

Posted by: Gosha at December 13, 2008 6:16 PM in response to Park Slope Condomonium

Is this a steam or a hot water radiator.
If it is steam, the TSR valves at radiators in all apartments above you need to be changed to prevent steam from going up the pipes after they have been heated.

Posted by: Gosha at December 13, 2008 3:56 PM in response to Solution to Overheated Apartment?

The valves at each radiator around all of the buildings need to be rebalaced.
Each valve is about $3-5.
You need to gather enough support from your neighbors, and get the board to make a re-balancing effort.
Replacing the valves takes about 2 minutes per radiator.
They could do all of them in one day (with the exception of people that are not home at the time)
We just did this at the begining of the heating season.
It made a huge difference.

Posted by: Gosha at December 13, 2008 3:53 PM in response to Coop in Queens Heating Problems

Most phones can be unlocked without flashing.
Search for "unlocking model number" on google and I'm sure you'll find something that will take you in the right direction.

Posted by: Gosha at December 13, 2008 3:47 PM in response to How to unlock the phone?

Consider Engineered wood. It will be a lot cheaper and can choose better wood types.

Posted by: Gosha at December 13, 2008 3:42 PM in response to what is the price range for having a hardwood floor installed?

I had the same problem.
Had a custom box made for me by a company on McDonald Ave between
Ave X & W. Ask for Misha (his the chief there)
I actually had to draw an exact diagram with measurements.
They made it exactly to specs. and were pretty cheap ($40)

Posted by: Gosha at December 13, 2008 3:40 PM in response to custom sheet metal exhaust required

What are the TRVs? Is that a typo or just a different way of calling the same thing? I was referring to Thermo-Static valves at each radiator.
And with regards to risers, they are not one per building, there are 4 apartments per floor , with 3 risers per apartment. I will try to check if they converge somewhere.

Posted by: Gosha at December 9, 2008 9:50 AM in response to Medium size coop heating system advice

Try bleeding the air out of the system. (open a small valve in the radiators upstairs). They should hiss for a little while. Wait until water starts squirting out. Repeat with each radiator.

Posted by: Gosha at December 9, 2008 1:09 AM in response to How to regulate heat?

Go to propertyshark.com and get a report fo ryour address.
it should get you all you need to know.

Posted by: Gosha at December 5, 2008 3:44 PM in response to What year was my house built?

Try to find where the links are with a candle or somethign similar. Then see if you can silicone around there from the outside.

Posted by: Gosha at October 22, 2008 10:29 AM in response to Drafty Windows

How big is the building that you live in ?
Can you talk to the landlord and help him troubleshoot the problem?

The problem is definitely not in the valve.
It is most likely due to a clogged / incorrectly "pitched" water return line.

Steam turns to water as it cools and is supposed to return to the boiler via a relatively thin pipe that usually branches off the main "riser" somewhere in the basement.
The "riser" is the vertical pipe that your radiator is connected to.
Find where that return pipe is.
Knock on it lightly with something metal (like a key) to check if there is water in it. There should not be any water in there once the steam pipes are no longer too hot to touch.
Find the place where the water is accumulating (the ringing noise from the knocking on the pipe will be very different where there is water in the line). Most likely there is either a clog somewhere between there and the boiler or the pipe is slanted (pitched) away from the boiler some place past there.

Posted by: Gosha at October 21, 2008 3:47 PM in response to Radiator Steam Valves - Recommendations?

I second on the Verrazano floors recommendation.
They are real pros. If anyone can fix anything , it's them.
But don't just blindly trust them, no contractor is ever perfect. Make sure you check everything, before they put down the polyurethane or lacquer.

Posted by: Gosha at October 20, 2008 2:50 PM in response to ISO Flooring Contractor for Parquet Floor Repair

I drive in The Slope daily and bike around very often. Believe me when I say this: it's the bicyclists who are to blame in some of these incidents, not the drivers.
Not sure what exactly happened in the mentioned accident, but some of these guys constantly go against traffic and/or in the middle of the road; not even slowing down for red lights; making dangerous blind turns when lights change, and so on.

Posted by: Gosha at October 20, 2008 2:38 PM in response to Park Slope Wants to Go Both Ways (Traffic-wise)

Try these guys too:
718-753-3771
Speak with Lana.

Posted by: Gosha at October 16, 2008 3:12 PM in response to insurance while doing renovation

Definitely check all radiators.
Vacuum as much of the sut from inside the cast iron rings as you can.
Check if you have any exposed wood that is not lacquered, especially that custom piece. what is the condition of the hardwood floor? It may need to be sanded and laquered as well.

What is the condition of the walls and ceiling, are any beams exposed?

Posted by: Gosha at October 16, 2008 1:09 PM in response to old house smell?

First off, fixing such old windows is most likely more expensive then replacing them with new modular windows, that can be made to look very similar to what you currently have.
I think it's time for you to replace your windows with the more modern GlassPack type. Modern windows are made of a vacuum sealed 2 or more pieces of glass, that is very good at keeping heat where it belongs.
You will definitely notice a considerable improvement in your heating bills and will stop throwing money out the window with the escaping heated air in the winter or cooled air in the Summer.

You do not have to do all windows in one shot(although it will be cheaper in the long run). For now you can just replace the broken ones and see how much of a difference that makes.

I know a good, reasonably priced place for modern windows. They are called Windows R Us (in Bay Ridge).


Posted by: Gosha at October 13, 2008 12:51 PM in response to Help with windows

I had mine painted in summer of 2006 by a general contractor that did a gut renovation of my APT.
I expected him do use heat resistant paint as we have steam heat. According to him if done properly, there was no need in heat resistant paint.
Doing it properly entailed, chemically stripping old paint completely, with some light sanding (be careful they are old pipes and will not stand much abuse) he then painted it with a layer of oil based primer. and then painted it with regular wall paint.

This has held up nicely through 2 heating seasons so far without showing any sign of deterioration. (your results may vary)

Posted by: Gosha at August 6, 2008 3:49 PM in response to Painting the Heat Pipe

I had mine painted last summer by a general contractor that did a gut renovation of my APT.
I expected him do use heat resistant paint as we have steam heat. According to him if done properly, there was no need in heat resistant paint.
Doing it properly entailed, chemically stripping old paint completely, with some light sanding (be careful they are old pipes and will not stand much abuse) he then painted it with a layer of oil based primer. and then painted it with regular wall paint.

This has held up nicely through 2 heating seasons so far without showing any sign of deterioration. (your results may vary)

Posted by: Gosha at August 6, 2008 3:47 PM in response to Painting the Heat Pipe

My coop is considering TKR. They are basically around the corner from us physically. So if they are not responsive We can just go there and get things taken care of (I hope)
Has anyone had a good experience with them? Who is your Rep? What did they do that made you feel like they provided a good service?

We are currently with AFC management (Ari Farkus) and they are basically useless. Anything the we need done we need to manage by ourselves and then take an extra step to make sure that they don't mess it up.

Posted by: Gosha at August 6, 2008 2:32 PM in response to Management Companies/Managing Agents

One more vote for classic tile on 86th St.
If you want nice tile, (and can tell the good tile apart when you see it) You should go there.

they have a huge selection and prices are very good.

Posted by: Gosha at August 6, 2008 12:03 PM in response to Tile shops in Brooklyn

Responses to Author's Forum Comments

Heard good things about the dual-flush caroma. But we don't have one, so I can't speak from firsthand experience.

Posted by: bkrules at September 2, 2009 1:35 PM in response to Toilet recommendations

We have specified both the dual-flush Caroma and the Toto. I really think the Toto is a superior product. The Caroma looks nice, but Toto's got the technology down much better!

Hannah Purdy
Walsh & Purdy Architects

Posted by: hannahpurdy at September 2, 2009 1:50 PM in response to Toilet recommendations

Thanks!

Posted by: renttoown at September 2, 2009 1:58 PM in response to Toilet recommendations

It's really scary that I even know this, but....

There's a great site about toilets by a Washington (State) based plumber, who rates all the toilets out there. There are forums at his site where people discuss the fine details. It's obsessive but the site was a great help to me when planning which toilets to buy for my renovation.

Link: http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm

For local sources, I've had good luck with Park Slope Plumbing Supply on 5th Avenue.

Posted by: zeebee_in_bklyn at September 2, 2009 2:08 PM in response to Toilet recommendations

If kids are a factor... after our three year old figured out how to pick the toilet lock and began flushing celphones and apples down the toilet, we found an American Standard 1.6 that can flush eight golf balls. No idea how they came up with that as a benchmark, but it works. Weiss and Sons on Atlantic.

Posted by: buttermilk channel at September 2, 2009 2:31 PM in response to Toilet recommendations


Dude, think outside the box.

Make your own toilet with cement, plaster, and paper mache.

It's not that hard and it'll be a conversation piece that your guests won't be able to get enough of.

Or screw a toilet entirely and just rough-in a hole in the floor and go squat-style like they do in some parts of the Middle and Far East.

Just some food for thought. . .

Posted by: IronBalls at September 2, 2009 2:43 PM in response to Toilet recommendations

i bought an american standard for a tiny bathroom because it fit the space but i really don't like it. the flush is loud and seems to last a really long time and the standard seat seems "cheap" to me.

buying totos from here on out due to the numerous recommendations i have gotten.

Posted by: pmmtenement at September 2, 2009 3:19 PM in response to Toilet recommendations

I agree. Toto is the best. I actually picked up my latest Toto from craigslist...brand new! It was a total deal but you really need to check every day to see if they come up. Good Luck.

Posted by: allans at September 2, 2009 5:19 PM in response to Toilet recommendations

My closing costs were around $1700

Posted by: brooklyncurious at September 6, 2009 8:44 PM in response to Universal Mortgage rocks!

I went to A & K yesterday and received such all-time horrible service that I had to post it somewhere.

Apparently, I came at the wrong time beacause both employees were sitting down to lunch and were otherwise occuppied. They sat behind their desks and answered some of my questions while chewing. At one point, I asked, "Does this tile come in different sizes or finishes?" and the woman said, "I don't know which one you're talking about." WHILE SITTING AT HER DESK CHEWING.

At that point, I began asking for the makers of the tile samples so that I could figure out the answers to my questions on my own. Frustrated, I decided to leave.

As I was leaving the store, the male employee says to the woman, "She was asking for the manufacturers so that she could go out and buy it somewhere else. Can you believe people do that?" The woman replied, "Yeah, I know what she was doing." I'm still in shock that a business could operate this way.

Posted by: writeonadelphi at October 21, 2009 10:16 AM in response to Tile shops in Brooklyn