Ditmas's Profile
Author's Posts
April 2, 2009
Noisy Neigbors
It's an age-old problem, I know, but I want some fresh advice, if anyone has any.
We've lived in our co-op since January, 2008. Since that time, we've been dealing with very loud upstairs neighbors. They yell, stomp, and move furniture at all hours of the night and its a rare weekend when we're not kept up past 1 AM or woken up at 5 AM. Weeknights are no better. It's a pair of sisters living in a one bedroom. One keeps strange work hours which is contributing to the noise at odd times.
We've politely asked them to keep the noise level down or to at least move their loud conversations from the back room into the front when it's late at night, but they have been extremely hostile to our requests. When we go upstairs to complain, they come to the door, but rarely answer it, even though we can hear them approach the door, and see them look through the peephole. On the rare occasion when they answer, they scream at us, telling us to "go the f*ck away," calling my wife a b*tch and telling us to die. We never stoop to their level, staying civil and walking away. We've left notes or letters, but they usually wind up crumpled up at our door. A letter sent via certified mail was refused upon delivery. We've kept a noise log of every occurrence since the summer. We have begun the process of talking to other neighbors -- the person who lives above them for example -- in the hopes of getting more witnesses.
Our co-op board is doing the bare minimum to help us. They enforced the 80% floor covering rule with these owners, but the problem has not gone away. They have sent them letters reminding them of the building's noise policy -- no loud noise, tv or radio after 11 PM and before 8 AM -- but it hasn't changed anything. The co-op board president has heard the noise in our apartment, as we woke her up at 5 AM on a Saturday to get her as a witness.
However, other than sending them letters, the co-op board refuses to talk directly to the residents. The board president has said she doesn't want her "team" to get directly involved. At other times when the board president comes over to potentially witness the noise, she winds up talking about random stuff -- pictures on our wall, a book on our nightstand -- instead of really listening. (At 3 in the morning, I'm not interested in discussing literature.) We're especially distressed because members of the board seem to have known that these women have been a problem for years before we moved in. (Ironic that at our co-op board meeting we were asked what kind of hours we kept and whether or not we took our shoes off when we came home, yet no one mentioned these crazies to us.)
We don't want to get a lawyer or call the police, at least not yet. We feel that at the very least, the co-op board should arrange a mediated meeting between us and our upstairs neighbors, thinking that this is a sensible next step. It's win-win, in our opinion. If they show up and act like crazy people, we'll have the full board as a witness. If they don't show up, it shows that we made a good faith effort to resolve this in a civil manner before resorting to more extreme measures.
The only problem is that the board doesn't want to do this.
So, any advice? Short of continuing to suffer and building a case until we have enough evidence to sue, what can we do? Anyone have good experience with a lawyer who specializes in this kind of situation?
Author's Comments
What person in their right mind with the money to afford an apartment at 1BBP would choose to live with a view right onto the BQE? Maybe they should have made the water side condos and the BQE side offices. Or a prison.
Posted by: Ditmas at September 9, 2009 11:38 AM in response to It's Raining Cars at 1BBP
Oh, and to be fair, we shouldn't chastise these young women for Brownstoner's poor choice of words.
Posted by: Ditmas at September 8, 2009 9:30 AM in response to Renters Become Their Own Landlords
"but their story is also one of renters who persevere to take matters into their own hands."
Yeah, I'd also argue that stories of renters who take matters into their own hands probably involve housing court, or at the very least, doing a few chores and repairs around the building to save a few bucks on rent.
Getting fed up with renting and then buying at a young age is hardly an inspirational story.
Posted by: Ditmas at September 8, 2009 9:29 AM in response to Renters Become Their Own Landlords
I wouldn't begrudge these young women for having the luck of being born into a somewhat wealthy family, but "persevere"? How do you define persevere? As the ability to call daddy to get a suitcase full of cash?
If you're under the age of 30 and you own a $600K apartment, you don't know perseverance. You're lucky.
Posted by: Ditmas at September 8, 2009 9:12 AM in response to Renters Become Their Own Landlords
It doesn't take long for a discussion about bike lanes to yield it's first "bikers don't obey traffic laws" comment.
Posted by: Ditmas at June 12, 2009 12:24 PM in response to Fifth Avenue Bike Lane Debate, Continued
I walk by this house all the time. Impeccably landscaped, close to Cortelyou and the subway. There's no garage, but the neighborhood has tons of on-street parking; because so many people have driveways there are almost always spaces available.
Posted by: Ditmas at June 11, 2009 1:58 PM in response to House of the Day: 1600 Dorchester Road
Went to this one yesterday, not because I'm serious about buying but because it's in the building near mine and I was curious. Saw the open house sign and walked in.
http://brooklynproperties.com/coop368.htm#
Really nice place with a private garden. In really great condition overall, which was surprising because I've seen other apartments in the area for not much less that needed a bit of work. Plus, it was bigger than my two-bedroom. I have no idea about prices since it's been years since I bought and I don't know where the market is right now. Always fun to get a chance to see what other apartments look like!
Posted by: Ditmas at June 8, 2009 11:47 AM in response to Open House Post Mortem
This place is great. I stopped in to ask what I thought was a kind of dumb question and was treated very nicely. I'll definitely go back. A far cry from R&A, which is just down the street on 5th Avenue.
Posted by: Ditmas at May 27, 2009 3:53 PM in response to StreetLevel: Bike Shop Gets Rolling on Bergen
I don't live in a million-dollar Victorian home. I live in a co-op. There are lots of apartments available in buildings such as mine (1818 Newkirk) for anywhere from $250K to $400K. Someone in my building just sold a 1000-square-foot co-op for $309K. 1825 Foster Ave is a nice building and so are the buildings on E. 18th and E. 19th, all near the Newkirk B/Q stop. Along Cortelyou you'll find lots of co-op buildings, rental buildings, and more on Argyle and other streets with prices that are much more affordable and offer more space than in the Slope or brownstone Brooklyn.
So it is possible to find relatively inexpensive housing along a subway, near restaurants, and a short bike ride or jog to the park for New York's "middle class," whatever that is.
Trust me, after looking for an apartment for my wife and kid in Park Slope for years and not seeing anything big enough for the three of us, the choice to move to Ditmas Park was a no-brainer.
Posted by: Ditmas at May 14, 2009 12:30 PM in response to Can Ditmas Park Save The Middle Class?
Raised garden boxes for veggies and herbs. Anything non-edible goes straight in the soil.
Posted by: Ditmas at May 14, 2009 12:20 PM in response to Brooklyn Ground Zero for Lead Soil Problems
Before the economy crashed blogs such as this and other real estate news sources were saying that places such as Cortelyou, Newkirk, and other parts of Ditmas Park were likely to become the next Smith Street or experience Park Slope-like gentrification. When the market turns around, don't you think that will continue to be the case?
I've lived in the neighborhood for 7 years and long predicted that because of the area's big homes, mixed with apartment buildings, and the proximity to the B/Q lines for easy rides into Manhattan, that the area would sooner or later be gentrified just like any other neighborhood. Which I'm okay with. It's happening. Cortelyou is getting new restaurants all the time, Newkirk Plaza is getting a facelift and some new businesses, and a lot of the condo/co-op buildings are sprucing up.
Considering that the neighborhood can offer many of the benefits of the suburbs for families (big homes, driveways, yards) along with many of the benefits of the city for those who wouldn't want to leave (public transportation, good restaurants, walkability) I'm sure it will become less middle class as time goes on.
If the schools continue to get better AND houses are selling for over a million bucks? Please. Part of the reason Park Slope is so appealing to families is that PS 321 is so good.
One day there won't be a piece of this city within walking distance of a subway line that isn't gentrified. The rich don't want to be stuck in traffic out in LI or NJ. Areas like Ditmas allow them to live a somewhat urbanized life while still having the trappings of suburbia.
Posted by: Ditmas at May 14, 2009 9:22 AM in response to Can Ditmas Park Save The Middle Class?
There are easily four stories of this building that are practically unsellable: who would want to play 500K for a studio or nearly a mil for a 1-BR for the privilege of sucking in exhaust from the BQE every day?
Posted by: Ditmas at May 7, 2009 10:46 AM in response to Rentals, Price Cuts and Loan Extension at 1BBP
Actually WOG, the signals are there because of the auto traffic, added when they started allowing cars. I'm not excusing any rude cyclists, and as an occasional biker/runner/stroller pusher myself, I sympathize, but they do not have to obey those traffic signals. Unfortunately, you can't enforce common sense, and more people in the park should use it, no matter what they are doing.
Posted by: Ditmas at April 16, 2009 3:12 PM in response to The Fight for Prospect Park's Roads
As someone who relies on the park as my main location for recreation and exercise, this is welcome news. It's nice to think that I won't have to run with cars dangerously close to me, spewing exhaust as I try to get healthy.
Cars don't belong in the park. If this community board is worried about traffic, it needs more creative solutions than just "Oh, there's a park nearby, let's use that."
Posted by: Ditmas at April 16, 2009 10:37 AM in response to The Fight for Prospect Park's Roads
Very excited for Purple Yam. Between the Farm, Mimi's, Tibetan Kitchen, and Pomme De Terre, the neighborhood is finally getting some great variety!
Posted by: Ditmas at April 15, 2009 4:40 PM in response to Brooklyn Food & Drink Round-Up
Maint is insanely high for a building with few amenities
Posted by: Ditmas at April 13, 2009 1:10 PM in response to Co-op of the Day: 415 Argyle Road
My wife and I are in a one-bedroom. It's a bit beside the point, though, as we didn't buy our apartment to not be able to sleep in the bedroom. Additionally, the people who live below us are two sisters. One sleeps in the front room, one in the back room. So they make noise at different times. It would make no difference.
Posted by: Ditmas at April 5, 2009 2:11 PM in response to Noisy Neigbors
Thanks, Iris. We are going to direct our attorney to see if he can determine what the board knew, when they knew it, and what, if any, obligation they or the seller had to tell us before our offer was accepted.
I have told the board that I don't want to call the police, but while they are having meetings and writing letters, we are facing the more immediate crisis of not being able to sleep, which means we have to take action when possible. Calling the police is a last resort, but it will also provide evidence if we need it down the road.
Posted by: Ditmas at April 3, 2009 1:54 PM in response to Noisy Neigbors
So far I don't think that the building's board or management co. sees us as a problem. We have a friend on the board who is on our side, as are others. In fact, there is a long history with our neighbors and previous owners and neighbors have had similar problems. Alas, this was not on record before, and no one told us about it before we finalized our offer to purchase.
The coop board president offered to come over because I believe she wants to avoid a situation where the police are coming over at 3 AM, which would make other people unhappy.
We're going to get a lawyer. I spoke to the local precinct and the officer said to call 311 a few times over the next few weeks.
We'll probably stop paying our maintenance if a laywer confirms that it's the right track for us.
Thanks for the advice!
Posted by: Ditmas at April 3, 2009 10:32 AM in response to Noisy Neigbors
Why would this survey be accurate? How many of the respondents were also PSP members or potential members and not simply the typical Park Slope hating commenters who pop up here all the time?
Posted by: Ditmas at April 3, 2009 10:24 AM in response to Majority of Park Slope Parents Won't Pay to Play
If anyone has any advice about good attorneys with experience in this area, that would also be appreciated.
Posted by: Ditmas at April 2, 2009 4:53 PM in response to Noisy Neigbors
Thanks! The video advice is great. I got my camera out and will bring it up the next time I go up.
We're suing out neighbors in small claims court for the cost of the repair. We expect to win, although collecting will be another story.
Posted by: Ditmas at April 2, 2009 4:12 PM in response to Noisy Neigbors
There is a managing agent, but he and his company have so far not wanted to get involved beyond enforcing the 80% floor covering rule and sending them one or two letter restating the building's house rules regarding noise.
In fact, these same residents had a leak in their dishwasher which damaged our kitchen ceiling. When we called the managing agent to ask about how to procede with a repair, he said we had to work it out with our neighbors ourselves and, failing that, take them to small claims court. The managing agent said there was nothing he could do, which seemed strange since there could actually be structural damage to the building and not just cosmetic damage to our kitchen ceiling.
It will be slow, but we'll have to continue to collect evidence and will start calling the police. If experience is any guide, we'll call them tonight.
Posted by: Ditmas at April 2, 2009 3:41 PM in response to Noisy Neigbors
Thanks for all of the advice. We're probably days away from getting a lawyer.
The people who live upstairs are owners/shareholders in the building. They're in their late 40s or so.
These ladies are certainly taking enough rope to hang themselves, so to mash up a cliche. I left a note for them this morning, explaining last night's noise, asking them to keep it down, and telling them that if they would not talk face to face we would have no choice but to "call the police and pursue every legal option." The note was left back on our doorstop with scrawl on it: "Call the police. You are a big liar!!"
So, at least we have proof one of them got the note.
Posted by: Ditmas at April 2, 2009 1:35 PM in response to Noisy Neigbors
Mimi's Hummus is amazing. Inexpensive and the cauliflower salad is one of the best things I've had at any hummus place. So happy this place is in the neighborhood.
Posted by: Ditmas at April 1, 2009 12:14 PM in response to Wednesday Food & Drink Round-Up
I used to get my dry cleaning and laundry done there and I feel terrible for the family that ran Grace Cleaners. They were always so nice and ran a reliable business. I'm glad that no one was hurt and I'm sorry that people lost their homes. It's very sad to lose such a small, but important fixture on that block.
Posted by: Ditmas at March 26, 2009 11:03 AM in response to 9th Street Fire Guts Grace Cleaners
Brownstoner's Law: any post with the words "Park Slope" and "Mom" will draw over 75 comments.
Posted by: Ditmas at September 10, 2009 10:30 AM in response to Sitting Down with Prospect Park West Penner