The location, while far from "prime", is only a very short block from the place blocks -- in fact, Rapelye is simply the continuation of 2nd Place. The school that it overlooks is the Brooklyn New School (an elementary school that many affluent families travel from Park Slope and Fort Greene to attend) and BCS (the middle and high school that, while not as popular, is one of the up and coming middle schools in the neighborhood and likely to improve even more over the next few years). In addition, the fact that this street is zoned for PS 58 makes this far more desirable for families with young children than a house on Hoyt or Bond. Also, as other posters said, it's very close to Henry Street and some pretty decent neighborhood food and shops. The proximity to the BQE is a definite downside, but there's a very popular neighborhood preschool (Cobble Hill Playgroup) that is a block away and even closer to the BQE, so that isn't keeping people from travelling here and living here. Price is a bit high since there's lots of renovation needed, but I don't think that size and location would sell below $1 million, even in this market.

Posted by: CGfan at November 17, 2009 3:45 PM in response to House of the Day: 121 Rapelye Street

Petebklyn, I agree that it was the time of day, because almost all the storefronts were closed by dark. There were also quite a few storefronts that were private "clubs" -- and even in the day, there was blocks without much in the way of a storefront that you'd enter to buy something. It may be shuttered in the early morning now, but if you walk down Smith, there are still many retail stores open by noon (and many of the restaurants as well).

Posted by: CGfan at October 5, 2009 12:13 PM in response to Boerum Hill: In a Nutshell

CarrollGardened, I didn't think Grocery and the other restaurants opened up on Smith until much later than the mid-90s. The first restaurant I recall is Sur, in 97 or 98, and at night, it seemed like the only place along blocks of shuttered storefronts. But the Met grocery store on Smith and Warren or thereabouts seemed to be there for much longer.

Posted by: CGfan at October 5, 2009 11:53 AM in response to Boerum Hill: In a Nutshell

I have never heard of an affirmative obligation for a tenant to notify the landlord 60 days in advance if he planned to move at the end of the lease, or forfeit a security deposit. I am no lawyer, but I would be very surprised if your landlord had any right to hold a security deposit on the grounds that you did not affirmatively notify him you planned to move at end of lease. That's utterly ridiculous. I would get a lawyer friend to draft an official letter threatening to sue not only for the return of the security deposit, but for damages as well, based on the landlord's untenable claim that you didn't give 60 days notice (since that is his reason for holding the deposit).

Posted by: CGfan at September 9, 2009 9:18 PM in response to Lease Notice & Termination

This house isn't zoned for PS 58, it's zoned for PS 32 (both are a block away in either direction). Houses on other side of the block are zoned for 58 and the composition of the two schools is dramatically different, which isn't helped by the fact that 32 zone incorporates a large public housing project. However, DOE wants to improve PS 32, so is doing things to attract the more affluent newcomers but don't know how well it's working. Also, there are rumors the DOE wants to do away with zones altogether, so perhaps the school zone won't matter so much in the future.

Posted by: CGfan at August 6, 2009 8:48 PM in response to House of the Day: 329 President Street

Architerrorist, how long as it been since your kids were at 51? There are now other middle schools in District 15 that have good reputations: Math and Science, New Voices, and coming down the pike...BCS. Like the elementary schools, the middle schools can improve very quickly as the same kids in all those good elementary schools move up. Given that those schools can choose their student body based on grades and behavior, it's hard to understand why they wouldn't give a pretty good education to kids. They don't have the same problem as a middle school in the burbs, which takes all kids.

On the other hand, you said in an earlier post that your suburban school district had 14-20 kids/class. Is that really true? If so, it's tempting to move my family there -- I thought suburban schools suffered from the same overcrowding problem as city schools do -- the ones that are the "best" are also the most crowded because everyone wants their kids there.

Posted by: CGfan at August 6, 2009 11:08 AM in response to House of the Day: 439 East 19th Street

Park Sloper, I have to say it seems a bit disingenuous to talk about how worldly and sophisticated your child is while acknowledging that you sent her to a private school costing $25,000/year. I'd prefer my child to be exposed to all kinds of kids, and school is where most of that takes place. If your only exposure is families who can afford private, with the few scholarship kids (and families on financial aid who make more than $150,000/year) your child got a very warped view of this country, Brooklyn, and NYC. She might have become just as worldly going to a suburban school that actually had some real middle class families -- the ones who can barely afford $300,000 homes -- from families who might not be as highly educated as the ones who choose and can afford private school. Maplewood Guy sounds like many parents I know who had to move out of NYC because their budget wasn't 1 million for a house, but 1/3 of that. I'd like my child to meet those kinds of families, too, since they make up the vast majority of people in this country.

Posted by: CGfan at August 5, 2009 6:07 PM in response to House of the Day: 439 East 19th Street

I can't comment on Tribeca Peds, but I always assumed all pediatricians were on call 24/7. Pediatric Associates in Park Slope have both Saturday and Sunday office hours for sick visits (a major plus in my book) and there's always a dr. on call 24 hours. I've never heard of a pediatrician who didn't take overnight phone calls (or have another doctor covering). It's one of the reasons it is an underpaid and overworked speciality.

Posted by: CGfan at August 3, 2009 10:06 PM in response to Streetlevel: Tribeca Pediatrics Opening in the Slope

I agree with posters who are telling you to start looking. I also think your rent is high, unless your apartment is huge, in great condition with a dishwasher. You don't even have the typical 1.5 bedroom. Until you actually see apartments on the market, you won't know if I'm right, but you have nothing to lose by looking. You should even look at broker fee apartments - you are only looking for comparison sake and don't have to take anything unless it feels like a real deal. It may turn out your current apartment is reasonably priced and you'll stay, but if not, move.

Posted by: CGfan at July 31, 2009 10:58 AM in response to No Rent Reduction: Stay or Go?

Petebklyn, I think Cappi's comments were pretty accurate. 20 years ago (frankly, even 12 years ago) Smith St. was desolate for blocks and blocks at night. Not the case with Court Street, which had most of the shopping for "regular folk" and everyone I knew always walked along Court and avoided Smith as much as possible. Sure there were a few small stores on some blocks (between Union and 2nd was ok) but the strip from Sackett to Bergen seemed abandoned, especially at night. It's hard to exaggerate how much Smith St. has changed since then -- I try to describe it to people who lived in Carroll Gardens back then and moved away and I'm not sure they believe me. The change is clearly not all for the better (American Apparel?) but it is certainly dramatic. I'd say the same thing about Fifth Ave. in Park Slope as well.

Posted by: CGfan at July 29, 2009 10:22 PM in response to Million Dollar Deals Dead in Red Hook

Miss Muffett, I never understand why people get so angry at you about waiting out the market. I happen to agree with your judgement, and if I were in your shoes I would definitely not buy unless I found the ideal home at a reasonable price (not necessarily the bottom, but not inflated either). But even if both of us are wrong, there's certainly nothing wrong with voicing your opinion on the state of the market. I think you have very little to lose by waiting. Contrary to what posters believe, I bet you find a great home in the next year or two.

Posted by: CGfan at July 28, 2009 2:26 PM in response to Last Week's Biggest Sales

I know posters have been complaining elsewhere about the average reader appraisals being too low, but I just don't get paying well over half million dollars for a one bedroom on Tiffany Place. You can get a one bedroom in Manhattan for that price these days. No wonder sellers price their homes so high -- even at $150,000 off the listing price, the $588,000 seems crazy. I know it only takes one buyer, but I wouldn't buy a one bedroom anywhere in all of NYC for that price -- if that was all that was available, I'd buy a house in the 'burbs. Apparently, many people would choose the 1 bedroom but I don't know who they are since I've never met someone with that budget who wants a 1 bedroom.

Posted by: CGfan at July 28, 2009 2:13 PM in response to Condo of the Day: 1 Tiffany Place, #5C

Also, I wouldn't call this area "Gowanus". Most people consider Gowanus to mean near the Gowanus canal, which are the blocks around Bond St. This is much closer to Red Hook, not Gowanus, but is actually in Carroll Gardens albeit the border.

Posted by: CGfan at July 27, 2009 7:20 PM in response to Condo of the Day: 505 Court Street, #10C

Boerum Hill, it's not that condos are valued over houses, but that in real estate, location is a huge part of the equation. Court St. lofts are in a decent location (if you don't mind being near the BQE), zoned for a good public school, and near the subway. Red Hook just isn't there yet.

Posted by: CGfan at July 27, 2009 5:33 PM in response to House of the Day: 49 Dikeman Street

Curbed used to have some ongoing feature about this building with lots of complaints from the people who were renting there and dealing with the sponsor during conversion. The common complaint seemed to be shoddy renovation work, although it did seem as if some of the posters were a bit biased.

However, I know lots of families who live there -- affordable 3 bedrooms and zoned for a very desirable public school. Most people use the Carroll St. subway station, only about 6 blocks away (much shorter than the walk from many Cobble Hill homes), since the main entrance is at 2nd Pl. The location isn't bad if you don't mind looking over the BQE which some apartments do (and some look over the F train subway as it goes above ground). That part of Court Street has become very hip, with some great restaurants (Frankies, Buttermilk Channel). This apartment is simply priced too high for the market and maintenance right now, but when it's lowered enough (and I don't have a clue how low it needs to go) someone will definitely grab it.

Posted by: CGfan at July 27, 2009 5:29 PM in response to Condo of the Day: 505 Court Street, #10C

Agree, you just have to lower your price. This happens everywhere and you should not assume the rent will always go up. In Carroll Gardens, rents went down between 2001 and 2003 or so, then started slowly rising again. Now they are going down again. Lower the rent enough to find a good, reliable tenant (and be able to be choosy) instead of waiting for someone unreliable who agrees to a higher rent. You will be far better off.

Posted by: CGfan at July 26, 2009 1:11 PM in response to Hard to Rent in G'wood Heights?

You should definitely start looking at apartments as soon as possible -- don't trust the listing photos but take a look and see what the rent is on a comparable place.

1+ bedrooms really vary in size depending on whether the house is 17, 20, or 25 feet wide (and some are 35 ft long while others are 47 or more). But unless you have more than 1000 square feet, it does seem a bit high for the neighborhood.

On the other hand, if your landlord isn't even willing to call an exterminator or repair appliances, I doubt you'll get a reduction in rent but it's worth a try. You might be better off in a similarly-priced apartment with a landlord who bothers to fix things. It's certainly reasonable to expect this if you are paying $2,600/month rent, and if he's not responding now, it's even more unlikely he'll respond if your rent is lowered. Good luck.

Posted by: CGfan at July 22, 2009 9:07 PM in response to Renegotiating Rent--Cobble Hill

HellsBells, I agree with your analysis about the economics of buying this place, but you are undermining your arguments by sticking with your contention that this location is somehow fringe based on looking at a Yahoo street map. No one buys real estate by looking at some street map, and anyone who lives in the neighborhood will tell you that this location is pretty darn good. It's closer to Carroll Gardens than to Brooklyn Heights, but these days, that's actually a selling point since there are more restaurants and other amenities that way now. That block is more commercial than some, which makes it less desirable, but there's no need for you to comment on a location you aren't familiar with.

On the other hand, you are correct that this property is way overpriced for a 3 family when you can rent a much nicer duplex for less than your carrying costs. But there are probably affluent buyers who might want a 1.7 one family, so I'm guess at 1.5 million it would be snapped up very quickly (and probably in a bidding war). It's still not clear if this is a 4 story with a sub-basement, or a 3 story with English basement, and that might affect the price as well.

Posted by: CGfan at July 21, 2009 5:52 PM in response to House of the Day: 455 Henry Street

This isn't my favorite block of Cobble Hill, but it's definitely not on the "fringes", HellsBelles. I think most people consider any blocks between Henry and Court to be prime Cobble Hill, and you are better off on Henry here (zoned for PS 29) than on Pacific St., which is zoned for 261 (also an excellent school, but many Cobble Hill buyers prefer 29). Pluses are you are near the only grocery store in the neighborhood. Minuses are that this block of Henry has more commercial establishments than other residential blocks. It seems the $2 million price tags in Cobble Hill is reserved for one families (or triplexes) in excellent condition, and not a house like this. The basement level is lower than typical 4 story brownstones (which have higher stoops) and that often means there isn't an additional sub-basement that has the mechanicals. Since there's no floorplan, it isn't clear which is the case for this house.

Posted by: CGfan at July 21, 2009 3:35 PM in response to House of the Day: 455 Henry Street

There's an interesting discussion to be had about various teaching philosophies, but many posters here don't really understand at all the reality of how the NYC school system works.

This is a middle school. In many districts, middle schools are all by choice. Fifth grade students rank their middle school choices and match with ONE school, ideally their top 1 or 2 choice, just like medical students do with residencies. So, if this middle school intends to teach via socratic method, it very likely means that it will choose students who can easily learn via that method, and parents who want their kids to learn via that method. It will choose kids who have high test scores, and have already mastered the basics that so many posters bemoan aren't being taught. These students will, ideally, thrive with a more progressive curriculum because they are already at least above average students and if a school has a good enough reputation, far above average students. If the school does a crappy job of educating these students, believe me, no students will rank it anymore and it will fail. But the school will have an advantage because it will likely attract more students from middle class families who will do well academically regardless.

Minard Lafever, if you are going to criticize a school (PS 8) on its F "grade", you had better be prepared to rave about it next year if it suddenly gets an A or B. There's an excellent chance that will be the new grade at PS 8 because the DOE's rating system is based on IMPROVEMENT, and it is far easier to improve if more of your students had a down year the previous year. It's the schools that got an A last year that will likely go down -- whether a student misses one additional question or one less question on a standardized test makes no different statistically except in DOE report cards.

Posted by: CGfan at July 16, 2009 5:49 PM in response to New Middle School Coming to Fort Greene

Thanks, DIBS and Biff - I'll check those out.

Posted by: CGfan at July 15, 2009 10:32 AM in response to F. Martinella Closes After Less Than Nine Months

Too bad. It was one of the few places in the neighborhood where you could get a salad with ingredients to order, mixed by the counter person (and I always found the people at the salad area to be incredibly nice and helpful). Oh well -- are there any other places with those kind of salad bars in the 'hood? I hate the "make it yourself" salad bars for no good reason except the ingredients always look so worn and unappealing after dozens of customers have raked through them.

Posted by: CGfan at July 15, 2009 10:16 AM in response to F. Martinella Closes After Less Than Nine Months

Wow, lots of people posting here who really don't know Carroll Gardens at all. BHO thinks "Cobble prime" is close to Atlantic, but that's just not true. The blocks near Atlantic are NOT zoned for PS 29, which makes them far less desirable than other parts of Cobble Hill, just as the blocks zoned for PS 321 used to be significantly more valuable real estate in Park Slope. First Place is about as prime Carroll Gardens as you can get, and Carroll Gardens has seen a similar rise in real estate values now that PS 58 has become a coveted school to attend. I also don't understand sam's doubting of the square footage numbers. This is clearly a 25 foot wide brownstone, as anyone who walks by it can see. There are quite a few similar sized ones on First Place. So the footprint is pretty obvious in terms of square feet, barring the stairwells, and I'd wager these are probably larger than apartments in big buildings that list similar square footage.

Finally, the property website links to the Halstead Realty listings, which show 3 apartments in contract. It seems pretty silly for a realtor to show that an apartment isn't available unless that was the case (and if so, why not do this for all kinds of new developments?)

I think all real estate is still overpriced, but given what buyers are paying for apartments in far less desirable parts of Cobble Hill and Carroll Gardens, these are probably priced better than most. If you want to live in Carroll Gardens, which believe it or not, some families prefer over Park Slope and Cobble Hill, this is about the best possible location. And frankly, housing bubble aside, the value of real estate is mostly about location.

Posted by: CGfan at July 7, 2009 9:48 PM in response to 90 First Place Knocking Cover Off Ball

In my opinion, the best way to find a contractor is to tell everyone you know you are looking for someone. Accept only a recommendation from someone you know. Generally, friends will give you both the good and bad, so you know up front what you are getting into. When we were looking for a contractor, we heard only horror stories from many people until one person told us about their contractor who they loved. They warned us that he didn't negotiate in price at all, but would complete the job on time and professionally. There are always trade offs -- I have seen work by other contractors that is perhaps of a higher degree of quality but also takes much longer or the contractor is "flaky" and doesn't always show up. Or the contractor is much cheaper, but takes much longer and your project is always on the back burner. But recommendations from friends/friendly acquaintances are always best, and once you know the good and bad, you can make decisions as to what your own priorities are.

To answer your other questions, it probably makes most sense to do all the projects at once. Many good contractors won't do just a small repair, but if you have a larger job, will do all the little things you need done as well.

Posted by: CGfan at July 1, 2009 10:53 AM in response to Contractor Help

I agree with Ringo. There's a huge difference between having a 2nd working bathroom, and having the only bathroom out of commission. If it's the 2nd bathroom, I'd probably just let it go with what the landlord offered as it appears he's trying to be reasonable for your troubles. If it was your only bathroom, the apartment is basically uninhabitable without a working toilet, and the 6 days is fair. I would certainly approach the landlord with your "offer" -- I can't imagine your rent is so high on a 1 bath apartment that the 6 days would amount to more than $100-$150 than the $200 you were offered. However, if you like the landlord and he generally treats you nicely, I'd probably let it go if the amount wasn't significant.

Posted by: CGfan at June 29, 2009 12:39 PM in response to Withholding Rent?

If you have an e-mail of the broker telling you one thing that is clearly wrong, the brokerage firm should make sure the brokers' fee you paid is returned (assuming you don't want the apartment). Most legit firms will do this. I also think that a legit firm should offer to refund half the fee if you plan on taking the apartment so you can use it to pay for storage elsewhere. I had a similar situation occur, where the broker acted in an unethical manner and when I notified the broker that I was aware of this, I received a significant discount in my brokerage fee. You are NOT under any obligation to "verify" what the broker says with the landlord since in many cases you never meet the landlord. There are guidelines and brokers should follow them, and one of them is not to misrepresent an apartment.

Posted by: CGfan at June 28, 2009 6:00 PM in response to Real estate agent/misrep?

Bolder, the problem is that this block, while perfectly fine, isn't "prime CG". It's not just that it's a block from the Gowanus Houses, it's that it also isn't zoned for PS 58 or PS 29, which many CG blocks are.

Posted by: CGfan at June 18, 2009 5:13 PM in response to House of the Day: 78 Douglass Street

Petebklyn, I have to admit I'm surprised that any house on that block of Baltic would get $3 million in today's market. Although that one does look like an extremely high end renovation, and is certainly nearly twice as big as this one at over 4000 square feet. I wonder what the selling price was on that one.

Posted by: CGfan at June 18, 2009 3:49 PM in response to House of the Day: 78 Douglass Street

wasder, I didn't mean to imply you did think it was a bargain. I just find it ridiculous to think anyone would want to pay even 1.2 million for this house. That's still a housing bubble price for a 3 story on this block.

Posted by: CGfan at June 18, 2009 1:59 PM in response to House of the Day: 78 Douglass Street

Hmmm bad school district. One block from a housing project. Near the height of the market it went for under $500,000. I guess if you put up a ridiculous asking price, coming down $400 or $500,000 makes you think you got a bargain. 1.2 million isn't a bargain to me, but perhaps there's a buyer out there somewhere who thinks it is.

Posted by: CGfan at June 18, 2009 1:46 PM in response to House of the Day: 78 Douglass Street

BklynSoFar, some of the buildings on Tiffany St. run shuttles to the subway (I think 29 Tiffany Place does). I don't think you'll find any connecting bus service at all -- there are a few bus routes in the area, but it's almost never worth a transfer because of their frequency, or route. It is a long walk home late at night -- Cobble Hill is very safe, but I'd still take a cab if I could afford it as you will be walking down some very quiet blocks. During the day, it's very pleasant.

Posted by: CGfan at June 17, 2009 10:17 PM in response to Condo of the Day: 44 Cheever Place

Nomi, the back of the F train, coming from Manhattan, stops at President and Smith. Front is at 2nd Place and Smith. This place is far from the subway, by neighborhood standards because it's halfway between the Carroll and Bergen St. stop. In fact, it's probably closer to walk to Kane and up to Warren, which I believe is one entrance on the Bergen St. F stop and not use the Carroll St. stop at all.

Posted by: CGfan at June 17, 2009 9:01 PM in response to Condo of the Day: 44 Cheever Place

Get a grip yourself, cmu. I already told nybk01 that his kids can learn to adapt. The point is, if you are happy to "supervise" your kids' friends every time they go up and down the stairs more power to you. I guess I'm just a lazy parent who doesn't want the bother. But I've never seen parents following around their 5 year olds on playdates to make sure they don't run down stairs.

Posted by: CGfan at June 12, 2009 10:39 PM in response to Open tread stairs and cable side

When a kid climbs up and down these stairs, where do they hold on? Is the top rail an easy hold for a small toddler? To answer your question -- yes, I've seen homes full of expensive glass tables, art, and stairs like these and there are small kids living there who obviously learn how to maneuver them all and keep away from the dangerous and expensive and breakable stuff. But with kids come playdates. I assume you want your kids to have friends over to play, and try to imagine 4 or 5 year olds running up and down these stairs. You don't only have to worry about your own, you have to worry about the kids who visit you as well. I wouldn't want the hassle myself, but it can certainly be done.

Posted by: CGfan at June 12, 2009 8:22 PM in response to Open tread stairs and cable side

more4less, what do you mean? Are those rents under rent stabilization? If not, is there some reason the owner wants to offer them below market?

Posted by: CGfan at June 11, 2009 11:57 AM in response to Cobble Hill Towers Condo Plan Drops

I just looked at that Craigslist link, too. You are right, those apartments are renovated with dishwasher, etc. But, the asking rent is $1,650 - $1,800 for a 1 bedroom, and $2,450 for a 2 bedroom/2 bath. I don't know the size of these, but if this is market rent, it seems for cost effective to rent rather than pay mortgage and maintenance if your costs are so much higher.

Posted by: CGfan at June 11, 2009 11:47 AM in response to Cobble Hill Towers Condo Plan Drops

christopher, my point exactly. $450,000 for a 900 square foot apartment, especially for one without a decent kitchen and that requires walking up 3 or 4 flights of stairs, isn't exactly a "bargain" except according to the inflated real estate prices of the recent bubble. It's still barely affordable for most middle class families with kids who need 2 bedrooms. Even if they stretch to afford something costing half a million dollars, they'd likely prefer getting a basic luxury like a dishwasher for their money. I'm not saying there isn't someone out there willing to pay those prices -- I just don't know who those people are.

Posted by: CGfan at June 11, 2009 11:20 AM in response to Cobble Hill Towers Condo Plan Drops

Is $500/squ foot really such a great bargain? What kind of shape are the apartments in? Given how low the rents have been historically, I'd imagine they aren't in the best of condition, and are there dishwashers/washing machines? Maybe during the height of the market, but as prices return to where they were historically, it doesn't seem like such a great deal, especially if you can rent a similar apartment for less than your mortgage and maintenance.

Posted by: CGfan at June 11, 2009 10:52 AM in response to Cobble Hill Towers Condo Plan Drops

I agree this apartment is way overpriced for this market (it wasn't that long ago that even the "average reader appraisal" price would have been a stretch for that block). But the fact that this is priced higher than much nicer apartments in Prospect Heights and Clinton Hill is likely because the school zone (PS 58) has become very very desirable. Not nearly enough to justify this price, however.

Posted by: CGfan at June 8, 2009 6:25 PM in response to Co-op of the Day: 96 Luquer Street

There's no quick answer to your question, and in fact, that's a good thing and says alot about how far schools have come in the last 5 or 6 years. PS 29 in Cobble Hill is another long-established popular elementary, and PS 58 in Carroll Gardens also has a great reputation among parents in the neighborhood. In Boerum Hill there's PS 261, and I understand there are many highly educated parents in Clinton Hill and Fort Greene using the public schools as well. There are also charter schools, accessible via lottery, like the Children's School and Brooklyn New School that are slightly easier to get into than they were in the past due to the neighborhood schools becoming so much better. You really need to talk to current parents and visit the schools to see the "vibe". Some are more progressive, some more academic, some very crowded, some not, and you need to weigh what you think fits best with your kids' needs and your own philosophy. But the nice thing is that as more affluent parents with young kids move into neighborhoods, the schools are improving in many many places.

Middle school is a different kettle of fish entirely, but, for example, District 15, which includes Park Slope, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens, Windsor Terrace, etc. already has a few middle schools that many kids attend.

Posted by: CGfan at June 3, 2009 9:00 PM in response to Best Public Grade Schools in BK?

I'm doubtful there's going to anything "wink wink" about something in that location. More likely an upscale spa. Certainly I doubt any locals would walk into a sleazy massage parlor with all the kids and families who walk down Smith St. around there. You'd be sure to be spotted by someone you knew. I know there are some dark shops, as vanyali mentions, but those usually date from before the Smith Street change. And none of them have big awnings outside.

Posted by: CGfan at May 15, 2009 8:34 PM in response to Streetlevel: Rubdowns on Smith

Benson, I know someone who bought a brownstone on the upper west side of Manhattan, 80s near CPW, in the early '70s. Their description of the house and neighborhood at the time (dozens of people living in it, using the public hallways as toilets) is not pleasant. You seem to be denigrating any neighborhood that isn't already gentrified and expensive as unacceptable, and yet the nicest neighborhoods now would never have become that way without lots of middle class people buying in them.

Of course you aren't going to get the same size house as you might somewhere else in the country, but that doesn't mean your alternative can't be a perfectly nice place to live.

Posted by: CGfan at May 14, 2009 12:34 PM in response to Can Ditmas Park Save The Middle Class?

dirty hipster, I think you missed my point. I'm suggesting that true middle class parents (or families with $100,000/year incomes, NOT $250,000) should be looking in neighborhoods where you can buy a family-sized apartment or home on that salary, and improve the schools there. That is exactly what happened in the 321 and 29 neighborhoods. In fact, not all that many middle class families I know have a "Brooklyn or Bust" attitude -- I wonder how many true middle class families you know. The ones I know have found affordable housing (which sometimes means renting) and have worked to improve the local elementary schools where they live. If they can't continue to find affordable housing in an acceptable school district, they move to the suburbs, just like you suggest. But don't kid yourself -- the parents that are middle class aren't moving to subrubs where a house "only" costs $700,000 (with another $20,000/year in taxes) -- they are moving to affordable suburbs with decent schools that yes, are exactly on par with the decent elementary schools in Brooklyn. That was my point. On whether a $250,000/year income is middle class -- I agree with your point that it is NOT.

Posted by: CGfan at May 14, 2009 12:08 PM in response to Can Ditmas Park Save The Middle Class?

A neighborhood with $1 million dollar homes isn't a middle class neighborhood, so Ditmas Park isn't going to do it. However, there are plenty of other NYC 'hoods where houses are still significantly less expensive, both in Brooklyn and Queens, and I don't understand why middle class families aren't moving there and improving the schools. PS 321 and nearly every other neighborhood school (PS 8 excepted) became better way back when homes WERE priced for the middle class. Fifteen years ago, you could still buy a house in nice parts of South Slope for $300,000 or less, and 10 years ago the same was true in Cobble Hill (and both with rental income). Salaries have not risen in any comparable amount since then, but home prices are through the roof. So to me, it's insane when the house prices are high BEFORE the schools get better -- it should be the other way around.

Dirty Hipster, you make a silly comparison. 321 is an elementary school. It does compare quite favorably to elementary schools in the suburbs. What exactly are you basing your claims upon? Suburban schools are only better in the most expensive suburbs, with high property taxes, which middle class families can't afford anyway. So what is your point? That there is someplace too expensive for people to live that has better schools?

Posted by: CGfan at May 14, 2009 10:45 AM in response to Can Ditmas Park Save The Middle Class?

Well, it only takes one buyer, but in my opinion, homes in the PS 32 zone just aren't worth a $2 million dollar price tag at this time. And I don't believe this house will sell for that much as a result. But, who knows, you may be right -- we'll keep watch on what this eventually sells for. I agree with you that the zoned elementary school is not your kid's only option, but that's been the case for years in District 15. Despite this fact, homes in 321 and 29 always got a higher price. My point was that this house is priced as high as homes in better school zones and I don't think it's worth the price.

Posted by: CGfan at May 3, 2009 11:59 AM in response to Open House Picks

CGDad, if the main component of a home's worth is still location, I'm not sure it's fair to compare a house on 2nd Place with the house on Sackett. Yes, the 2nd Place house is narrower, but the location is still better, not just because it's on one of the few place blocks with front gardens, but because it's also zoned for 58 instead of 32. Although you are correct that it's certainly possible that someone could luck into one of the charter schools, most buyers still prefer the certainty of knowing they can attend their local zoned school (and Miss Muffett, despite the DOE's threats to the contrary, I believe it will be a long time before any zoned kid is turned away from a school like 58, 29 or 321 -- it's just politically impossible). For many years, homes in the PS 29 and 321 zone were more expensive than homes in less desirable school zones, and there's no reason for that to change. PS 32 is still not going to be the choice of most people willing to spend $2 million on a home, and while that may change in the future, prices should reflect the current reality, not some future possibility. So I don't think $2 million for a townhouse on that block is any great bargain at all. Sadly, PS 32 would probably improve much faster if those homes were priced for middle class families with some incentive to work to make sure 32 became a good school quickly, which is what happened in the other neighborhoods, where the schools got better BEFORE the house prices got high sky.

Posted by: CGfan at May 3, 2009 11:14 AM in response to Open House Picks

sebb, what about PS 84 in Manhattan? Don't they offer a French dual language program also? My understanding is that 1 or 2 others started the same time as PS 58's. I just don't think it's necessary to say a school is "top notch" or oversell it ("more desirable than PS 29") because it will only leave disappointed parents whose expectations aren't met. A good school can stand on its own merits, honestly. We agree on your point, that PS 58 is a good school, in any case.

Posted by: CGfan at May 1, 2009 10:54 PM in response to Open House Picks

sebb, I'm a fan of PS 58, but you sound like a broker (are you?) Why does everything have to be exaggerated? There are many very good aspects to PS 58 and when a school is good, there's no need to exaggerate -- in my opinion, it just turns people off. First, PS 58 is NOT the only school to have a French dual language program in all of NYC -- there are a few others. I do believe it is currently the only one in Brooklyn. Also, only 24 English-speaking kids can take the dual language program, with acceptance via lottery, so it's no guarantee. Finally, PS 58 is arguably as beloved as PS 29 these days, but there's no need to say it's "more desired" in general. By the way PS 58 also has an amazing strings and science program. There's alot to like about the school and no need to exaggerate it's best parts. But remember, a mere 6 years ago most kids zoned for that school tried to get variances for PS 29 -- it made a swift change in a few years from a so-so to a much better school. It's definitely possible for PS 32 to make a similar turnaround if the DOE decides to make an effort to do so and a big group of parents are committed to improving it. I wouldn't be surprised if that did happen, given the changing demographics of that neighborhood. Still, getting back to subject at hand, I agree that current school zoning is relevant and this house would be far more likely to get 1.5 million + if it was a few blocks west.

Posted by: CGfan at May 1, 2009 5:42 PM in response to Open House Picks

ando, Brklyndave specifically asked about what the "etiquette" was and we answered him -- do you understand the definition of the word?. People in CG sit outside on their stoops and talk to their neighbors all the time, but they don't grill there. We're answering his question -- if he doesn't care about etiquette he can certainly go ahead and grill, but then why did he even bother to ask the question?

Posted by: CGfan at April 25, 2009 3:43 PM in response to Front yard grilling etiquette

I heard a story of some Carroll Gardens newcomers thinking it might be fun to grill in the front yard and doing so. They got a visit from some gentlemen who lived on the block who told them front yard grilling wasn't done - this was more than a decade ago. I think there's a reason that you never see anyone barbecuing in their deep front yards -- it was never considered appropriate behavior (except during block parties, when I've still seen it done). It's possible things have changed, but my guess is many of your neighbors won't like it, even if you share your food. After all, they could be grilling in their own front yards, but they aren't doing it. People do grill in their backyards all the time in the neighborhood, however.

Posted by: CGfan at April 25, 2009 9:17 AM in response to Front yard grilling etiquette