BrooklynBear's Profile

Name:
Bear
In Brooklyn Since:
2003
On Brownstoner Since:
2007
Location:
Brooklyn
Neighborhood:
Park Slope
Abode:
Rental
Profession:
Musician / Real Estate Agent
Sex:
Male
Age:
30
Website:

Author's Posts

December 16, 2008

Stop Work Order / DoB Bureaucracy

Kind of a long story, but I'll do my best to keep it short.

Back in April, my business partner and I rented a warehouse in Gowanus with the intention of building partitioned rooms (what we're using it for isn't important). We started doing the work ourselves without permits, an admittedly bonehead move on our part. We got slapped with a SWO shortly thereafter.

After a few months of dealing with an expeditor, an architect, and a contractor, we got our plans approved, paid the $5,500 (!) penalty, and got our permits to work. We thought it was a done deal.

Because this cost a ton of money, we figured we'd wait a couple of months to generate more cash before we moved on to our HVAC installation, also an expensive job. We already had plans approved in September, but just found a company we were happy with and signed a contract last week for a 15-ton unit on our roof. We went to expeditor, and he went to DoB to pull permits today. What they told him blew my mind. Apparently, we still have some civil penalty for almost $10,000 that is due, for a SWO that doesn't exist, or was already paid. What is going on here?!?!

I'd like to know if anyone else is completely fed up with the DoB being easily one of the most corrupt and money-hungry organizations in this town. I certainly am. It seems to me that people are quick to defend them, but I feel like everyone there is either on the dole or would like to be. Is it possible to make it what it's supposed to be, i.e. an organization that actually CARES about safety and enforcing code, instead of a bureaucratic greed machine? It's one thing to throw arbitrary fines at giant developers building huge condos on 4th Ave (it may not be right, but they have budgets for that), it's another to screw over small businesses who are just trying to build some walls and put heat in their buildings.

Any advice, Brownstoners? I'm at a loss. I'm about to throw in the towel and move to Nebraska or something.

Also, why is there not a category on here for the DoB? They are the source of SO MANY problems...

Author's Comments

As my father always said, "It can't hurt to ask."

Posted by: BrooklynBear at February 27, 2009 6:52 PM in response to Should seller remove wallpaper?

Katie

That totally sucks. My only advice is to hire an expeditor. It sucks that they even have to exist, but they tend to have ways of maneuveringthe DoB in ways that sane folk like you and me would never think of.

This whole experience makes me wonder if anything would ever really get done in this town if it were 100% government sanctioned.

My guess is no.

Posted by: BrooklynBear at December 17, 2008 11:43 PM in response to Stop Work Order / DoB Bureaucracy

UPDATE:

So, my expeditor went to 210 Joralemon today, and called me at around 1pm. Apparently, they totally f'ed up and didn't enter the original civil penalty payment into the system, but for some reason I still had to pay $297. It kind of feels like they were just throwing a high number out there, and when they learned I couldn't afford it, they were like, "Whaddya got on ya, kid?"

Bastards. I'm still gonna take them down someday, but I have a business to run in the meantime.

Thanks for all the convo / kind words, Brownstoners. You all rule!

Posted by: BrooklynBear at December 17, 2008 5:02 PM in response to Stop Work Order / DoB Bureaucracy

Metal exterior door, prehung. Not perfect, but it works pretty well.

Posted by: BrooklynBear at December 17, 2008 9:30 AM in response to Soundproofing finished basement

Well, there's this stuff called "Quiet Rock" (http://www.quietsolution.com/html/quietrock.html). It looks, weighs, and cuts the same as regular drywall, but it's actually equivalent to 8 sheets of the normal stuff (you have to get the 5/8" board [model 525]). You could go with the 510 1/2" if you want to install it over existing drywall. If you're doing a full gut reno, I would do a staggered stud construction with quietrock 525 and spray foam insulation (it has an R value of at least 46, which deadens sound immensely). Depending on your budget, there are a few way you can go. Using spray foam insulation alone will do a pretty good job, or using quiet rock with regular fiberglass insulation will also do pretty well. But, if you want to make sure that not a peep will get through, you're going to have to spend some money somewhere.

Posted by: BrooklynBear at December 17, 2008 8:55 AM in response to Soundproofing finished basement

Music rehearsal studios. And, thanks. Sorry for calling you snotty.

Posted by: BrooklynBear at December 16, 2008 8:08 PM in response to Stop Work Order / DoB Bureaucracy

Fair enough, but again, that's why I immediately copped to it not being the smartest thing I'd ever done. And honestly, I'm only a realtor in the sense that I've rented a few apartments. I'm licensed, but getting a real estate salesperson's license in this state requires no knowledge of what requires permits and what doesn't. We figured we could do all of the work ourselves, and asked a lot of professionals who would know whether or not they thought permits were necessary. They all said they thought we could get away with it without them (including our landlord). So, yes, we knew the risks going in, and we totally got busted, but we paid for that and did the work to correct it legitimately, so that all is kind of beside the point.

The point is that now the city is trying to make us pay double for a penalty we've already paid, which really chaps my ass because it's indicative of a system that is so damaged that it can misplace thousands of people's dollars, people who sometimes don't have a budget to deal with it. Luckily, we have overhead for this kind of thing, but not much. If we can't show them that this extra fine is BS and they force us to pay, we'll be SOL for quite a while.

Posted by: BrooklynBear at December 16, 2008 8:06 PM in response to Stop Work Order / DoB Bureaucracy

Good one.

Next.

Posted by: BrooklynBear at December 16, 2008 7:58 PM in response to Stop Work Order / DoB Bureaucracy

@eman1234

Hence my comment that it was "an admittedly bonehead move." Don't worry, though: your eye-rolling condescension didn't go unnoticed.

Ahem. Since then, we have done every last thing on the level. We have paid our civil penalty, and hired licensed contractors, electricians, plumbers, riggers, HVAC...everything is legitimate, so save your snotty "welcome to new york" comments for someone who deserves them, and learn how to capitalize, punctuate, and provide actually useful feedback in forums.

Posted by: BrooklynBear at December 16, 2008 7:48 PM in response to Stop Work Order / DoB Bureaucracy

denton, that's unbelievable.

I mean, I TOTALLY believe it, but I have to remark at the utter inefficiency of this organization.

Is there NOTHING that can be done about it? Is it just too big, too broken.

I'm sorry that happened to you.

I'm sorry the DoB is what it is.

Ugh.

Posted by: BrooklynBear at December 16, 2008 6:51 PM in response to Stop Work Order / DoB Bureaucracy

Good question. It's a good thing that my expeditor and I are both fastidious record-keepers, because I'm pretty sure they just biffed it up and didn't record our original fine payment (Actually $5,565 with another $397 filing fee: I just found the receipt). Because it's been so long (the SWO was issued on April 29), I think they've doubled the penalty for what they THINK is a non-payment (or some other arbitrary and no doubt archaic code they continue to stick to).

Ugh. 750k kitchen, you say? Want to buy a business while you're at it? We could have done all this three times over with that kind of cash...

Anyway, yeah, you're right: it DOES suck. Maybe I'll follow bk14's advice. Even better, I have a few friends who are Assemblymen. Who knows, maybe I'll become a crusader against the DoB and force the FDNY to take over their duties. Okay, now I'm just rambling. I'm still reeling from this fine news. I hope it's just a mistake, but I'm not holding my breath.

Posted by: BrooklynBear at December 16, 2008 5:45 PM in response to Stop Work Order / DoB Bureaucracy

In fairness, I haven't been to MHU in a couple of years (not since I lived in Bushwick in 2004), but I do remember their cables being overpriced. I was not yet a Mac person, so I couldn't speak to their pricing in that realm, but it seems as though they've become an authorized Mac repair / retailer, so they're obligated to keep their prices in line with whatever Apple dictates. The attitude thing is probably relegated to a few individuals, so it's probably not fair of me to apply that perception to everyone who works there. For the convenience, it probably is worth to spend $10 more for a hard drive when you'd have to wait for one to be delivered otherwise.

Posted by: BrooklynBear at August 8, 2008 10:16 AM in response to Streetlevel: Mikey's Hooking Up Dumbo

Hate to burst the old bubble, but I've always found MHU to be overly expensive, and the attitude of their staff snotty and judgmental for no reason.

Staples online is your friend.

Posted by: BrooklynBear at August 7, 2008 2:49 PM in response to Streetlevel: Mikey's Hooking Up Dumbo

Snore.

Am I the only person who thinks these things are totally anti-climactic?

Posted by: BrooklynBear at August 1, 2008 4:56 PM in response to Closing Bell: Where's The Water?

BrooklynBear wrote a review about Peter Luger on July 26, 2008 10:07 AM

Love the bacon. Saw Geraldo Rivera there last time, not that that should reflect poorly on the man.

I've had many steaks in this town, and I think Luger's still takes the cake for me.

Food:
Service:
Ambience:
Value:

I actually think it would make a pretty spectacular performance venue / bar a la Union Hall, but getting an idea like that beyond the CB would be next to impossible. It'll probably become an infant-based clothes retailer.

Posted by: BrooklynBear at June 5, 2008 12:43 PM in response to Court St. Blockbuster Changes Hands; Future Unclear

Yet another characterless glass monolith on 4th Ave, sans retail space?

Sigh.

Posted by: BrooklynBear at June 4, 2008 12:58 PM in response to New Entry in the 4th Avenue Development Game

I thought they were going to be on 3rd Place in Carroll Gardens?

Posted by: BrooklynBear at June 2, 2008 10:10 AM in response to Time to Start Getting Real, Downtown!

Hey, 3:26:

"The noisy bar"? Your contempt is palpable. We get it.

Now F*ck off out of here.

Posted by: BrooklynBear at May 15, 2008 4:05 PM in response to Union Hall Yays Have It; Nays Speak Out

Haha, 4:12! That's a movie right there.

I think they'll get 100k less than ask. Don't ask why I say that, just a gut feel, and I've got quite a gut!

4:50: as in "Ronny Cammareri," Nick Cage's character in Moonstruck, who happened to work at Mazzola bakery just down the street?

Coincidence? Probably.

Posted by: BrooklynBear at May 13, 2008 5:27 PM in response to House of the Day: 468 Henry Street

Word, 10:41. Or at least cover it with some ivy or grapes or something.

Otherwise, beautiful garden! Jealous over here...

Posted by: BrooklynBear at May 13, 2008 10:44 AM in response to Garden of the Day: Crown Heights Verdant

Responses to Author's Forum Comments

Arkady: Could you explain what a floating platform is?

Posted by: parkslopemom at December 17, 2008 2:20 PM in response to Soundproofing finished basement

take a look here for a DIY soundproofing solution for walls

http://www.instructables.com/id/Soundproof-Your-Garage-Walls-Using-My-Cleat-Meth/

Posted by: arches at December 17, 2008 2:21 PM in response to Soundproofing finished basement

I have some radiators that I'm taking out if you want one or more.

Posted by: superstooper at December 17, 2008 3:53 PM in response to Stop Work Order / DoB Bureaucracy

Putnamdenizen: Oh, the radiators are in Clinton Hill. If you're interested 917-620-4084.

Posted by: superstooper at December 17, 2008 3:57 PM in response to Stop Work Order / DoB Bureaucracy

UPDATE:

Bastards. I'm still gonna take them down someday, but I have a business to run in the meantime.

Thanks for all the convo / kind words, Brownstoners. You all rule!

Posted by: BrooklynBear at December 17, 2008 5:02 PM in response to Stop Work Order / DoB Bureaucracy

Congrats! Power to the people!

Posted by: superstooper at December 17, 2008 6:15 PM in response to Stop Work Order / DoB Bureaucracy

Platform made of studs and plywood (like a low stage) that sits on rubber matt or special rubber pads made for this purpose. It cuts down on impact and vibration noise by decoupling sound source from floor. You can make the platform just for the drums if you want. you will still have ambient room noise to contend with though.

The suggestion of pads is a great one, or go even one further and you can purchase a good electronic drum kit, then your kid can play drums through headphones with no room noise. If he/she had electronic drum kit and wanted to jam with friends they could all plug into a mixer and listen in headphones and there would be no room noise.

Posted by: werner at December 17, 2008 6:26 PM in response to Soundproofing finished basement

My 12-year old son is a drummer and my 10-year old daughter plays guitar, with amp. Our old apartment was masonry. We worried when the neighbors had a baby, but they never, never, ever heard my kids play. That said, I did undertake many of the above suggestions, with great success.

Any good music supply shop (we prefer Drummers World on 46th Street (http://www.drummersworld.com/dsp/main.php) is a great resource. We bought a set of mutes, which are simply sheets of rubber that are pre-cut to the size of the drum heads. His kit is kick-bass, snare, floor tom, and 2 rack toms. The mutes cut down the vibration and sound by about 90-95%!

I also built a set of risers. I used 6" length of 4x4 for legs and 3/4" plywood for the base. I attached rigid foam insulation on the underside of the plywood to absorb some vibration before attaching the legs. I covered the top surface of the plywood with carpet padding and then with carpeting. To make it sick, I strung blue rope light on the underside. I made this in 2 parts to make it easier to move if he ever wants to take it to gig somewhere, and to simply make it easier to move if I ever need to do so. The whole thing sits on a rubber pad. The elevation of the risers makes him feel like a proper rocker, and it definitely reduces the volume. If you want, I am happy to tell you more about the construction. It was a fun, easy project.

We bought a house this summer in Boerum Hill, frame construction. My stars, is it ever loud. The masonry was the key to the quiet. Even with all my efforts, when he practices without the mutes, the walls shake. But the riser helps a lot. And he loves to practice. We enforce an earplugs at all times policy, so we let him practice with no mutes sometimes.

Posted by: r1b2 at December 17, 2008 7:36 PM in response to Soundproofing finished basement

Is it legal to use spray foam insulation in brownstone ceilings and walls?

I know it's commonly used in modern houses, but I've never seen anybody spray it in 100 year old brick and beam buildings.

We always use insulation rolls that are much lower R value than 46 because their cheap and easy to use, but I'm not sure they do much.

I've used Quiet Rock several times with suspended ceilings and it does seem to work pretty well, but in general even using regular 5/8th inch sheet rock with a properly suspended ceiling blocks out most noises.

Quiet Rock is also more difficult to cut than regular sheet rock and retails for around $100 a piece, which isn't cheap.

Posted by: IronBalls at December 17, 2008 9:22 PM in response to Soundproofing finished basement

I have a similar story and I am completely fed up with the DOB. I was given a stop work order but written on the SWO it stated that painting plastering moulding and doors were still allowable only no plumbing and electrical... Ok so we continued painting etc. About a week later a second inspector comes by and give a second full SWO and a 2000- fine for working while there is a SWO on the property.

We have a hearing date, go to the hearing and ask for a postponement, just get a notice in the mail stating that we failed to show up for our hearing and now our fine is 8000k....I feel so disgusted by the entire experience!

I have no problem paying a fine for work without a permit - but 2 fines for work we were specifically told we could do and for not showing for a hearing that we were at makes me crazy!

Posted by: katiem633 at December 17, 2008 10:38 PM in response to Stop Work Order / DoB Bureaucracy