Bxgrl;

You have no idea what you are talking about. I work for a major Japanese industrial firm, and I can assure you that one of the last places any heavy industrial facility will be located is NYC. The cost of RE, utilities, labor, etc. just make NYC an unsuitable place for such an activity.

I don't say this as a knock against NYC - I'm a resident - but as a fact of economic life. NYC has elolved to a different economy, one centered on finance, media, fashion, professional services and other creative, information-intensive services. Get over it.

There is one other factor that weighs against locating an industrial facility in NYC, and that is the local attitude towards such places, and here I am specifically speaking of folks like you, who think they know how to order the world. If, somehow, an industrial company could be persuaded to locate a facility here, no sooner would the opening-ceremony ribbon be cut then folks like you would be taking to the blogs and streets. The noise! The dirt! The way they treat their workers!!

Finally, most businesses will not be convinced to locate such a facility in NYC with the promise of some type of government subsidy. They're shrewd enough to understand that those dollars would come with mighty big strings attached, as hack politicians would inevitably respond to folks like you.

I could see the local TV news now "We're here standing in front of the Red Hook Ship Repair plant, and we're talking to Bxgrl. Bxgrl, what are you demanding?" Bxgrl" "We're here to demand that they do something about The Noise! The Dirt! The Way They Treat Their Workers!". "Back to you, Jim".

Keep dreaming. Most folks who are involved with industry have a job to do, and that job certainly doesn't involve responding to busybodies.

Posted by: benson at August 4, 2008 2:48 PM in response to Will Retail Continue to Trump Industry in Red Hook?

Bxgrl;

The reason I am so harsh with you is the way you comport yourself on this blog. You pontificate on every topic that comes along, in accordance to some sort of utopian vision that you have. Give us a break. If the twentieth century demonstrated anything, it demonstrated the fallacy of utopian visions, whether derived from the left or the right. Not every issue can be painted in black and white, as is done by you and others on these pages.

I was born but a stone's throw from the site of where IKEA and Fairway now stand. My parents worked in one of those glorious factories that you believe were so great. Do you know what the biggest industry in those factories was? Making paper bags. My father as a child attached handles on shopping bags. Would you have him go back to those days? Should I drop what I'm doing and start making paper bags? How about you?

Fortunately for me, my parents improved their lot, and likewise for their children.

Posted by: benson at August 4, 2008 8:30 PM in response to Will Retail Continue to Trump Industry in Red Hook?

Denton;

You said a mouthful! Prior to moving to sales, I was an engineer for 15 years, specifying products that were manufactured in New Hampshire and Japan. One of the sadder aspects of NYC's transformation is that many of its residents have lost touch with large parts of the other economic sectors that are in this country, such as farming, manufacturing and mining/exploration. As I said in my original post, this evolution was inevitable, but I find that it has brought an unrealistic worldview to many folks here.

I even see it in the condo where I live. It is a new condo, and I observed how many of my fellow residents interfaced with the builder concerning the inevitable problems that crop up in new construction. Issues that could have been resolved with a modicum of practicality on the residents' side were immediatly escalated to the threat of legal confrontation. I was even reviled by some residents for the fact that I could get issues resolved by simply applying some common techncial sense to the negotiations.

I am not as pessimistic as you about the US economy. There is no doubt that our manufacturing base has been hit hard in recent years, but I still see alot of areas of strength, and believe that we will do well. For all the gains that China has made over the past few years, it is interesting to note that they have not evolved at all (as the Japanese did). For example, no major Chinese brand name has been planted in the minds of consumers, in the effective way that Sony, Toyota and all did.

Concerning NYC, I think the greatest harm is done by those who hold to the belief that the key to the uplift of folks in the Red Hook projects and elsewhere is through locally-based manufacturing. If folks really wanted them to do well and move into the middle-class, they would tell them that there are realistically only two options:

-if you want to stay in the NYC area, then get a good, advanced education.

-if you want to move into the middle class through manufacturing work, then move the the South or areas like southern Indiana where this is still possible.

My company has a plant in southern Indiana that I occassionally visit. Folks in NYC would be shocked at the wages they are paid. Yet, due to the low cost of living there, they have a comfortable life. Most own a modest, but nice home on a good-sized piece of land, and there is usually a 20-feet boat parked in the yard, for weekend fun.

Good talking with you.

Posted by: benson at August 5, 2008 9:53 AM in response to Will Retail Continue to Trump Industry in Red Hook?

The common charges shown on the broker's web page seem incredibly high. They can't be right.

Posted by: benson at August 5, 2008 12:27 PM in response to Closings Begin at the Heritage

Are folks doing their math here?

The top listing on the Heritage broker's site shows an (in-contract) apartment of approximately 1200 square feet with common charges of more than $900/month.

Here is a listing for a larger apartment (1350 square feet of interior space) right across the street. This condo development is 3 years old, and has more amentities than the Heritage:

http://www.warrenlewis.com/cgi-bin/re/re_show.pl?re_command=show&ID=6455

As you can see, the common charges are less than $500/month.

Posted by: benson at August 5, 2008 1:36 PM in response to Closings Begin at the Heritage

11217;

I'll respect your taste as to which apartment you prefer, and that would be reflected in the price you would offer for the place.

We're talking about the common charges, however, and those relate to the operation of the building and its amentities.

The condo I referred to (City View Gardens) has a parking garage, a GYM, and a huge interior common courtyard, as well as private rooftop areas. It also has elevators that open right into the partments. Hence, in comparing the building operations and amenities, these two developments should have similiar common charges.

Again, remember, I'm not talking about whaich is better from an aesthetic or architectual POV. The common charges should only reflect what it takes to run the building.

Posted by: benson at August 5, 2008 1:50 PM in response to Closings Begin at the Heritage

Crimson;

Get a grip. Are you the broker for this place??

Some of your points are way off. The quality of the brick has nothing to do with the CC. Tell me how the quality of the bricks affects the cost of running a building.

You make hypothetical points, as if instructing us on how to buy a condo. You don't actually address the comparison at hand. If you look at the discussion, folks did make attempts to compare apples to apples, in terms of square feet, buidling type and amenities.

By the way, of what use is the offering plan in considering the CC of a 3 year old condo? I live in a condo that is 4 years old, and our operating budget bears no resemblnce to that in the offering plan. Sponsors tend to underestimate the budget - they are trying to sell a product, you know.

Take a deep breadth. I'm sure you'll sell out the place, despite the criticsm on this post.

Posted by: benson at August 5, 2008 7:14 PM in response to Closings Begin at the Heritage

Crimson;

The reason I suspect that you are a broker is your opening line: "Stop the Comparisons". What are you suggesting, that we make this an inefficient market? Only someone who has some type of interest in the matter would make such a statement.

For your information, I happen to live in a development across the street from The Heritage, and I know both it and City View Gardens well. They are similiar-type buildings with a similiar scale, and similiar features and amenities. It is preposterous to suggest that one might have a live-in super, as both developments are of a small scale and could never afford a live-in super. All the developments around here have part-time, visiting supers. Nobody was comparing a Manhattan hi-rise to The Heritage. You seem to be trying to obfuscate, which is another reason I suspect that you have an interest in The Heritage.

My point regarding the OP was the operating budget shown, from which the CC's are calculated. As anybody who has bought a condo knows, the OP makes pains to acknowledge that the budget and resultant CC's shown are just an estimation for the first year of operation. The estimation shown is NOT legally binding. Moreover, as I stated above, most sponsors tend to lowball the operating budget estimate, to make the building more sellable.I think what you are referring to is the percentage of common interest of each unit. This IS legally binding, as is contained in the declaration of the condominium.

Chill out.

Posted by: benson at August 5, 2008 8:57 PM in response to Closings Begin at the Heritage

11217;

I am not selling, but I was upfront about where I was coming from, that is, that I live accross the street from The Heritage (i.e transparent). I cannot say the same for Crimson. You do not suspect he or she is a broker, but I still do. Anyone who tries to state that comps should not be made has some type of interest in the matter.

Also, I was not trashing the Heritage. My only comment, which I stand by, is that the common charges seem quite high for a new building of that type. I see that some folks have posted who are buyers, and they feel that they are getting their money's worth. Bully for them.

Posted by: benson at August 5, 2008 9:41 PM in response to Closings Begin at the Heritage

11217;

This conversation is taking on an "Alice in Wonderland" quality. First you defend a guy (or gal) who makes a blanket statement: "Stop the Comparisons", and now you're telling me that I should have made a more apt comparison, since the Heritage is a higher-grade building (in terms of architecture and/or construction quality).

This latter comment makes me wonder if you understand how common charges are calculated, and their purpose. As I mentioned to you above, they have very little to do with the aesthetics of the building. It is not a "price" you pay for a better building. Your judgement (and anyone else's) about the value of the building is reflected in the price, not the common charges. The common charges are derived by calculating what it takes to run the building, and that in turn depends upon the building structure, the services and amentities offered, and the labor and material costs in the area.

Frankly, I can think of no more apt comparison for the Heritage than the nearby developments: Park Slope Estates, Park Slope Gardens and City View Gardens. They all have the same type of building structure: 4 or 5 story townhouse-style condos with elevator service, part-time supers, no doorman, individual HVAC units and a few added amentities, be they a gym or a playroom. Given that they are across the street from each other, there is no differential in labor or material costs.

Let me throw the ball in your court: if you do not believe that my comparison was apt, please point to a better one (same goes for you, Crimson).

Posted by: benson at August 6, 2008 10:00 AM in response to Closings Begin at the Heritage