Gates Reno
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December 7, 2006
The Blame Game
I really hate to write posts that are this detailed (read: boring), but it's easy to say "this is X's fault" if you don't know the chain of events. With the details you'll see how muddled this whole door situation is.
OK, first I'd like to deal with this picture because I inadvertently made everything look worse than it was.
I put this pic up to illustrate the fact that the wallplate screws weren't lined up correctly with the holes in the mortise (I'm not sure if that big metal thingy that goes inside the door is called the mortise, or mortise actually refers to the space made to accommodate it, but for the sake of this entry I'm going to call it the mortise, because thingy just doesn't sound grown up). I failed to notice that it shows a mortise without a deadbolt and a strike plate (in another picture) that is obviously supposed to be for a deadbolt. Just so that my crew doesn't look even worse, I should tell you how that happened.
That door, the current kitchen/future master bathroom door, was the first door to get its hardware. The mortise (with deadbolt) went in without a problem. The strikeplate went in, and that's when we noticed the first problem.
Should the installer have stopped short of carving a notch in the wood for the obviously-too-small strikeplate? Of course. I'm not sure what was going through his head (I've seen some of his other work and this guy is really highly skilled), but it was probably something along the lines of "I was told to install these and if I don't I'll be in trouble. I have to make this work." We've all been there. But he called me over after getting the strikeplate in and I called the architects and they called the contractor and the doors were rehung.
Things still didn't seem wrong with the hardware, until the faceplates were put on with the knobs. The top screws wouldn't go in. Since there seemed to be different holes in the mortises (mortisi?) without deadbolts than in the ones with deadbolts, one of the guys switched mortises to see if the screws would go all the way through with that one (they didn't). That's how the door with the deadbolt strikeplate ended up paired with a mortise with no deadbolt. It was just to see if the screws would go through. Everybody knew that they weren't supposed to be paired together.
Anyway, after the doors were re-hung and the strikeplate corrected, the installation of the locksets continued. By this point, Mr. Architect had seen the locksets (he made the comment that I had chosen doorknobs and locks that were worth more than the doors), and the contractor had seen the locksets, and of course we had seen the locksets. It did seem like overkill for our bedrooms and bathrooms, but what can you do? They're "European" locksets, so I just thought, OK, so that's how they do it in Europe.
Mr. Architect was not so sure. He suspected that these were entrance locksets, not regular old inside sets. He checked with the site we bought them from, and they insisted that they had sent the right items. They suggested that the screws were just too long, and offered to send shorter ones. So, with everyone still thinking that these were the correct locksets, installation continued on the other 2nd floor doors.
Finally, after a couple of conversations with Bouvet (the maker of the locksets), Mr. Architect determined that we had, indeed, been sent the wrong sets. The website had sent us (and charged us for) entrance sets (except for the faceplates, which go with the locksets we actually need). So, one piece of good news is that the sets we really need are much cheaper.
So now, all of the locksets are going back to the website, which will not be charging us a restocking fee. Mr. and Ms. Architect have used this site many times without a single problem, and will hopefully be able to strong-arm the site into taking some responsibility for our damaged doors. They sent us the wrong items, and then insisted that they were the correct items, and in my mind they are more responsible than anyone else for the wrong locks being put in.
I don't know who will be paying for this mistake. I'm taking a wait and see approach. Omer's squarely in the "we shouldn't have to pay" camp. However, when we decided to order the hardware (to avoid a mark-up from the architect or contractor) we also took responsibility for the items. Does that extend to the installation of the incorrect items? I have no idea. But I hope not.
Are the architects responsible? I have no idea. I'm not sure how they could be. They've been spending a lot of time figuring this out and making it right. It doesn't seem to me to be their fault. When they realized that there was a problem they did what they could to get it solved. When the website told them that we had the correct items, they went to the manufacturer and got things straightened out. Is it their fault that the wrong locks got installed first? My gut says no.
Is the contractor responsible? His guys installed what we told them to install. Should he have known that they were the wrong items? I don't see why he should have. The architects didn't know. The place we bought them from didn't know. We sure as hell didn't know.
I should mention that Mr. Contractor ate the cost of re-hanging the doors to make them flush. Whatever went on with the different drawings, that was clearly his fault and he took responsibility for it. There are always different drawings for everything. Every little thing gets its own detail drawing. And drawings get revised and updated all the time. Part of the difficulty of a job this size is in making sure that you're following the latest drawings.
Mr. Architect said that it shouldn't be a problem to fix the doors since they are painted. If we were going to stain them, then we would have been in real trouble. I'm not sure how it's all going to end up. I think that before this project started I envisioned it as a simple jigsaw puzzle: there are a set number of pieces and the architects and contractor figure out where they go. But it's much, much, much more complicated than that. It's like a 50,000 piece puzzle, with fake straight edges, extra corners, and pieces from other puzzles thrown in just for fun. So far, whenever we've had a problem, it's worked out in the end. I'm confident this one will be worked out too.
Comments
Ouch, I feel your pain. To be honest I'm just not technically minded enough to follow all the specifics here but, if it's any consolation, I can say that 5 years after our reno we still have doors that don't shut properly, doors with the wrong hardware, doors with no strikes, doors with no hardware at all! I swear I'm gonna clean it all up in 2007, really I do. And even though we have one of the smartest, nicest, most skilled carpenters in the whole city working with us (when he has the time) it's difficult even for him to get it right every time. We are constantly re-adjusting the hinges, changing out hardware, even planing doors for god's sake. All of which is to say that this is one of the trickiest detail issues you will face in your renovation. So be kind to yourselves and your team. Good luck!
Posted by: NeoGrec at December 8, 2006 6:53 PM
Next time you complain or someone you know opines as to why architects should get 10%-15% of the cost of all the crap in your house you should tell them this story. Do you think it would be worth the small price to have someone else be in charge of something this complicated and involving this number of people? This is what the markup is for. It isn't just some way for architects to make more cash. Trust me, I am one, and we are poor. But I can't feel sorry for you trying to find a way around a markup and getting caught in a pickle. I specify locksets all the time and I probably would have SAVED you money and headaches, even with a 15% markup.
Posted by: anarchitect at December 12, 2006 2:10 PM
In all fairness to me, I ordered EXACTLY what Ms. Architect told me to order. She even sent me a PDF of the website with the correct choices marked. And in all fairness to her, she told me to order EXACTLY what should have been ordered. But that's not what we got.
The problem was with the website. They listed and pictured one thing and charged for and sent a different thing. And then insisted that it was right. This is why I put the blame on the website.
I'm not sure if things would have happened differently if I had let the architects be responsible for the ordering and purchasing. All I know is that I've had some bad luck with ordering for this reno. There was also the leaky tub. Hopefully my bad luck is over (knock painted wood).
As far as paying to have the architects handle things, we already pay them a hefty percentage of the entire job. And I have heartily recommended this to all others who have asked. But I've been ordering some supplies myself to try to keep costs down. The risk for me is that if there's something wrong with the items, I'm responsible (as with the tub). But the architects are still in charge of making sure everything goes smoothly. They've got their job cut out for them with this reno. They're earning every penny, and we're happy to pay them every penny.
Posted by: Amy at December 12, 2006 5:02 PM
I'm glad you recognize that what your architects do is complex, has real value, and you are glad to pay them for their labors.
However, I would doubt that their fee exceeds 15% of the cost of construction. This can seem like a lot of dollars, but really, in the grand scheme of the amount you are paying for the acquisition and renovation of this project is really is a relatively small sum. 15% is what you tip a waitress. Yes, that's right, we architects basically work for tips. The fact that your meals are expensive is not our fault. Trying to cheat down our fee is like stiffing the waitress a decent and well earned tip because you want to buy a really expensive bottle of champagne (or a Sub-Zero, maybe?) When you try to cut us out of the loop these problem come home to roost in YOUR lap, not ours. That is just one of the reasons we charge a markup to handle these orders.
Clearly in this case the website screwed up, but come on - according to you, your architect spoon-fed you the specs, the source, everything and still they weren't getting paid the markup to cover that work.
I too, am less than entirely sympathetic.
Posted by: anotherarchitect at December 12, 2006 10:33 PM
I can understand why you are defensive about this particular subject - it's your livelihood. I'm just glad that I'm working with architects who understand that I'm on a budget and that I am trying to squeeze every penny out of this reno, and they're helping me find ways to do that. And I am actually paying them a bit more than 15%. But whatever the percent/total cost, this is the relationship that we've worked out together.
Posted by: Amy at December 13, 2006 8:04 AM
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