Gates Reno
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July 4, 2006
Decisions, decisions...
Omer e-mailed a Wall Street Journal article to me a few days ago about the popularity of do-it-yourself home design software and programs. Well, popular with normal, everyday people, who have no design training or building experience. Not so popular with architects and builders, as you'd expect. I think one of those programs would drive me insane. It's difficult enough trying to make decisions from the choices presented to us by the architects. Having the world at our fingertips with no guidance would be disaster.
I was out of town this weekend, but the e-mails flew fast and furious between Ms. Architect, Omer, and myself, and we made most of the final decisions regarding the top floor (kids') bathroom. We opted for a shorter than normal bathtub (48" long, but a few inches deeper than standard) so that pipes wouldn't have to be moved, saving us at least $1200 and some precious time. We still haven't picked out a faucet, showerhead and controls for this, but at least we have a tub.
The sink is fantastic. It's a double trough sink. It looks like something from the public grade school I went to, where we would line up to wash our hands. The faucet is very cool, very industrial looking. But both the sink and faucet are fairly expensive (and we need two faucets), and finding something just as interesting for the tub/shower is proving difficult without spending a ton of money. That's the problem with finding something you love: it raises the bar for everything else.
Third floor sink, faucets, and soap holders (but we'll be getting the double, not the triple).
Interestingly, I googled "trough sink" to try to find a cheaper alternative than the Kohler pictured above, and number eight or nine on the results page directed me to Brownstoner! (My very sink was even mentioned in the comments.) He put a salvaged trough sink in his kids' room, and apparently had a tough time mounting it to the wall. They ended up putting supports under it. So, how do I mention this to the architects without it sounding like I'm second-guessing them, which I guess I am? Putting supports under that type of sink takes away a lot of the charm, in my opinion. But I know my son will be hanging his full weight on in while he brushes his teeth, and I don't want it coming down on his feet.
Comments
Hi Amy! Great blog! I have a similar renovation project as yours but my budget is very limited. Around $150,000. I need new plumbing and electrical (kitchen and baths too)so I know this will not take us too far. My wife and I would like to do most of the renovation ourselves and thus are seriously interested in the "do-it-yourself" design programs and software. Can you provide us with some sites or leads? I'd like to explore this option very seriously. Thanks and all the best to you, Omer and the house!
Posted by: BrownBomber at July 5, 2006 3:44 AM
I sent BrownBomber the article directly (don't have the link, just the full article), but I just wanted to mention that it wouldn't help with things like plumbing or wiring. One of the big complaints in the article is that people bring their computer-designed plans to a builder only to be told that they removed a load-bearing wall, or put a toilet where it couldn't possibly go due to the plumbing.
Posted by: Amy at July 5, 2006 9:51 AM
I used a lot of salvaged sinks in my reno on Putnam, and I had to put in supports. Despite having two architects as siblings (or pershaps because of ) I ended up having a much more folk-art style reno rather than high design, so I didn't feel that a copper pipe being used to hold up a marble sink detracted from the aesthetic. I suspect that the product you are buying is meant to be anchored deep in the wall. But I hope you aren't gun-shy around your architect this early in the game! Simply ask him/her - will the sink be able to support the ever-increasing weight on my kid?
BTW welcome to the neighborhood.
Posted by: putnam-denizen at July 5, 2006 10:56 AM
If you're really worried about crushing your child, try this. The sink mounts to a specially designed bracket that mounts to the wall. The best way, is to remove the plaster wall surface down to the frame work where you plan to place the sink. Cover that area with a piece of 3/4" plywood securing it directly to the frame work (glue and screw) Mount the sink bracket to that directly and then the sink to the bracket. Neatness counts and you may have to make some adjustments to get the wall thinkness' to match.
I have also done this in addition to the above. Mount the sink and trace its shape from underneath, then remove it again. Drill two or three holes into the plywood where a support rod could be placed that fits a straight contour of your paticular sink. It would basically be an additional horizontal post support for the weight of the sink + kid under the sink itself. Something from Home Depot or Lowes that is round and as thick and solid as you can find and still be able to cut. Doesn't have to be the full depth of the sink but at least half. This never shows unless you crawl under the sink.
The sink installer should know this, but if your doing it yourself you may not. Hope this helps a little.
Posted by: kjw at July 5, 2006 4:26 PM
Try to find one of those sinks at Build IT Green, www.bignyc.org If it's not on the website, call them. I think I saw one there recently.
Posted by: tippiassam at July 6, 2006 11:13 AM
Amy, this is so cool. I love your writing style and sense of humor. It will be a nice diversion at work to follow the transformation of your home. When you start needing someone to distract the kids, I'll do my best to be there.
Posted by: AB Carney at July 6, 2006 11:37 AM
I'm an architect, and I'll be the first one to admit we don't always know everything. If you're working on stadiums by day, but doing a house reno on the side, they're very different projects. So, if your architect doesn't believe you need additional support, I'd say she's a stadium builder, and you should bring up this very important issue lest the sink comes crashing down on your child's head. I believe some steel support in the wall to be the best way to support the sink.
Posted by: Dumb Architect at July 6, 2006 11:45 AM
I just want to clarify something before Ms. Architect gets a bad name. I have no idea yet how she's planning to mount the sink. For all I know, she's drawing plans right now for some kind of space-age trough sink-mounting super-structure that will be manufactured by NASA. Brownstoner's travails with his trough sink just got me wondering, and I'll ask her (and tell all of you). It's just that I'm the kind of person who goes to sleep at night imagining all of the horrible things that could happen to my loved ones. A giant cast iron sink crushing my children has been added to the list. I'm sure she's thought of it too, and the contractor has thought of it, but it's in my nature to inquire so that the nightmares stop.
And this is definitely her day job. Like I mentioned before, some of my friends think we're wasting money, but we felt that this was a job best left to people with a ton of experience.
Posted by: Amy at July 6, 2006 8:32 PM
this sucks my big hairy balls
Posted by: Boris at May 3, 2007 1:19 PM
Happy to be of service, Boris. We do charge for that particular service though, so we expect your payment. You can send it to our paypal account at wesuckbighairyballs@yahoo.com.
Posted by: Amy at May 16, 2007 10:02 AM
Amy -- the triple trough sink in your picture is EXACTLY what I am looking for AND CANNOT FIND ANYWHERE. We are building a house and have 3 sons that will share a bathroom. Everyone thinks I am crazy (which may be unrelated...) but I want them each to have their own "spot". Where on earth did you find that? I have searched Kohler's site and done countless googles, but I got nothing. Got any clues for me?? Thanks much -- Sink-Stumped in Arkansas
Posted by: Carla at June 20, 2007 11:14 PM
We got ours at Home Depot, but it's out of stock now. If you google Brockway Wash Sink you'll find it. I know NeedPlumbingSupplies.com has it. Just make sure you're looking at the sink drilled with three holes as opposed to the sink drilled with 2 3" holes. The one you're looking for should be around $1400-$1500.
Posted by: Amy at June 21, 2007 1:35 PM
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