Forum: C of O
July 3, 2008
"Furnished Rooms" on a C of O?
Does anyone know what exactly the terminology "furnished room" means on a C of O? We are in the processing of buying a brownstone that has one floor currently being used as SRO housing (3 apartments that share a common bathroom). The other floors are regular apartments (3 1-family units). I know banks won't generally lend to SRO houses, but I don't understand exactly what this "3 furnished rooms" on the 3rd floor would mean to an apppraiser. Two of these "furnished room" units have small kitchenette (burner/sink), but they could easily be removed (someone suggested this to avoid the appearance of being used as an SRO).
It total, it says the property is: "3 families and 3 furnished rooms; Class A multiple dwelling - converted."
If anyone could help me decipher what this means, especially in terms of getting a mortgage, it would be much appreciated. Thanks.
June 22, 2008
C of O lost and found at DOB!
This is a follow up of my post below entitled "C of O nightmare". Well I went out and paid a lawyer lot's of money to try to lower the $15,000 in penalties and was about to hire an architect to see if the one family could be converted to a legal two when I decided to go back to the DOB and do some more investigations. I still could not believe that my grandfather and his brother got a C of O change for one house and not for the other half a century ago. I told this story to everyone I could up there and got the general response that if the C of O said one family on the computer and their record room then that was that.
Finally I got a sympathetic ear and a very nice guy working there decided to check the docket book (this is where the applications for C of Os were hand written in decades ago) and what do you think? They found out that yes, the C of O for my grandfathers house had been changed to a two family but never registered properly . If I had not known the exact date that the other house had the C of O changed and guessed that our house had been changed the same day then they never would have unearthed the mistake and I would have been out tens of thousands of dollars in fines and heartache. As it is I spent over a grand on legal fees and lost a few thousands in rent since I kicked the tenant out not wanting to continue to rent an "illegal" apartment. I am relieved but very upset now with the DOB. I feel that they screwed up and were out for my blood and it was unfair. Should I try to get them to refund me my legal costs or let well enough alone? It is interesting that despite explaining the story to a half dozen lawyers and expeditors not one of them thought to tell me to have the docket book checked! It took the sympathetic ear of an employee to uncover the mistake. The lesson is to be persistent and NICE!
June 5, 2008
C of O for an addition?
We are looking at a house (Landmark Dist) that has a 1-story extension built many years ago. When I checked the C of O (issued in late '50s), it seems like it was never amended to include the addition. The addition is part of the ground floor rental unit. Is it illegal to rent the space without a C of O? Is it a violation to have an addition without a C of O?
If anyone can help clarify the implications of this it would be very helpful. Thanks!
May 30, 2008
C of O nightmare!
My grandfather and his brother bought two identical houses in the 1940s and they were always as long as I can remember (I was born in 1962) occupied by two families, ours upstairs and the other in the apt downstairs. We always paid taxes as a two family house. So everything was fine for sixty years until my grandmother who is 92 years old and getting to be a bad judge of character lately rented the apartment downstairs to bad tenants who refused to pay rent and damaged the apartment and called the building dept. and everyone else they could think of to create trouble. Anyhow, the building dept. discovered that the C of O on the house was for one family (It seems that my grandfathers brother changed the C of O on his identical next door house in the 1950s but for some reason my grandfather did not) and they sent my grandmother violation notices for illegal construction etc... She was recovering from a broken hip when the letters arrived so she missed the court dates and now the violations have climbed into potentially $15,000 worth of fines. I am her grandson and finally became aware of the issue and have started the process of seeing what can be done... I went to an architect who started to tell me that he "might" be able to halve the fine but that he would need to redo the blueprints and assuming the downstairs apartment is up to code he will "only" charge me between a low of $8,500 to a high of $15,000 to do the job. I was not happy with him and did not understand much of what he was saying. I may be naive but I feel it is very unfair of the city to hit my grandmother with such huge expenses for something pre-existing for over half a century. She has a hard enough time paying her taxes from the little money she gets. I don't know how we will raise the money for all this. Anyhow, does anyone at least know a competent and honest architect in Brooklyn who can solve this problem economically? Do I need a facilitator or will an architect be able to do everything? Sorry if I am still in the learning phase but I am very confused and inexperienced about all this.
May 29, 2008
Buyin a brownstone with no CO
I'm considering the purchase of a brownstone in Bed-Stuy with no CO (has been in one family since the 1920s), which has been used as both a four and a three family in recent years. I hope to live in it and rent the remaining units (either 2 or 3) - but I want to do it right. Has anyone done something similar- what will I need to do to get a CO (do I need one), what does that entail, and are there any good resources or books I should pick up?
Thanks.
May 23, 2008
Certificate of Harassment Question
We filed for a certificate of no harassment about 3 months ago, had the inspection about 2 months ago, and just yesterday received a form from HPD called an affadavit of no future harassment. The letter states that once this is completed and returned we will receive our certificate. Has anyone else who has gone through this process (hello Brownstoner) received this form? I am confused as to why they would need such a form since the house is vacant except for us and the plan is to convert it to a 2 family. There is noone to harass.
Any insights?
Thanks.
May 16, 2008
necessary to change from 4-family to 3-family?
I have a brownstone with four separate units and a 4-family C of O.
If two units are combined into one dwelling, is it necessary to change the C of O to 3-family?
April 15, 2008
mansion tax
The house I'm buying is listed as a 4 family with the housing dept, but as a 3 family with the finance dept. As a 4 family I shouldn't have to pay mansion tax, but the title company is saying that only the finance dept records are applicable. Does anyone know if this is right? It has the restrictions of a 4 family but I have to mansion tax to boot...Seems unfair and wrong...
April 13, 2008
Changing the C of O from 2 to 3 family?
We own a 3-story Brownstone with a 2-family C of O. We currently have a tenant renting the 3rd floor apartment, and we live in the bottom duplex (parlor floor and street level). A lot of the duplex space is unused, and since we bought the building at market peak a few years ago, the mortgage is a bit of a stretch. Renting out the parlor floor would be ideal for us, but we are not sure about the Certificate of Occupancy issue. Does anyone have any thoughts on the legal issues & process of changing from 2-family to 3-family? Legally vs. not legally?
March 25, 2008
C of O murkiness - how risky?
We're in contract on a 3-story brownstone currently used as 2 family, and represented to us as 2 family. However, inspector suspected it might really be a 3 family since it has fire escape in back (and something about the boiler too). NYC web site is confusing since Dept of Bldgs only PDF of a C of O is from 1947 and shows a 3 family C of O. But the Dept of finance lists house as 2 family. Inspector said the risks of having contradictions like this are: 1) tax liability - if it's really a 3 family, the city could find out and then impose higher taxes; 2) insurance issues - if we ever had to file a claim, an adjuster could reneg due to a technical inconsistency in C of O (that is, if we insure as a 2 family, but insurance agent finds that it is 3, or vice versa). Adding to murkiness is contract has clause giving seller right to back out if C of O's were not properly filed during alterations.
Does this sound like a typical issue that comes up with brownstones, or does it sound like a huge warning bell? We plan to renovate so will have to file permits anyway, but just want to be sure there's not some weird risk given the confusing C of O issues.