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November 4, 2009
Cost of Owning a Brownstone
We've been longtime lurkers on Brownstone and appreciated all the knowledge we've gleaned. We're considering buying a 4 story, 17 foot wide brownstone but are not sure we are ready to shift from condo to brownstone ownership. I know there have been posts on this in the past, but have been unable to call them up. The question: We're wondering about monthly costs of ownership as well as periodic costs of things we haven't thought of. So, how much do you hold in the bank and how much are you paying out (on average) every month?
Comments
Good question. Most of what I spend my money on is aesthetic and not necessarily required. mandatory repair-type costs have generally been tolerable. Flooding in the basement cost a few thou to fix I wasn't banking on but other than that, not too bad.
Taxes are posted, and minimal relative to condo/co-op. Heating bill was the big one for me. Can be sizable in the winter.
If you're thinking multi-family, talk to an accountant. The pre and post-tax cost of ownership is very different - if you've got a good accountant ;-) Good luck!
Posted by: Johnny at November 4, 2009 6:20 PM
So many variables such as how hot you keep your place, how well insulated the house is, etc. It sounds as if you have an actual place in mind so why not ask the seller what average utilites are - summer & winter if they're not on a budget plan. Same w/ insurance costs. Taxes you already know. How old is the roof? Beyond those categories things are discretionary: renovations, upgrades to appliances, window replacements, etc. Setting aside money for emergencies may depend on how handy you are - many things can be done without needing to hire an expert.
Posted by: Arkady at November 4, 2009 6:26 PM
As others have pointed out, you have to itemize everything and do the math based on the specifics of the house. That said, at least as a homeowner you have 100% transparency about where your money is being spent and you can make your own decisions about what to prioritize (emergency repairs notwithstanding). It used to drive me crazy in my old coop that the board would one month decide to economize on a roof repair only to have to go back and do it over or select expensive wood replacement windows that required an assessment. And the managing agent fees -- g** knows how they came up with their fee structure. So glad not to face that any more! Also, having rental income changes the whole equation dramatically. Even after paying taxes on that income, we cover all our maintenance costs, property taxes etc.
Posted by: grand army at November 4, 2009 7:15 PM
Thanks for the feedback so far. The place has been converted from multiple apartments and has new windows, etc., so the old bills don't seem as relevant. I've lived in old, drafty houses before so heat is a big concern. Although, I guess that brownstones insulate each other. From the site we've learned about things like basements flooding, main lines breaking, facade work, etc. So, if people would be willing to put out numbers that would be really useful. Again, thank you.
Posted by: stoppedlurking at November 4, 2009 7:15 PM
I did detailed estimates when I was working on a tenants-in-common.
Similar sized 4-st house, came to $17000/yr, including $4400 re tax, 3,400 insurance, all mechanical components & stoop and facade prorated (ex: furnace, 5000, 30 years), utilities (heat: 3300 mostly), garden, plus $2500/yr contingency.
Posted by: cmu at November 4, 2009 10:57 PM
I was surprised at how reasonable my gas bill was for the heat & hot water. I have a forced air system in a three storey building and I pay about $1,700- 1,900 per year in gas. Electric for the common sharges is never over $60 per month in the winter and usually around half that the rest of the year.
Maintenance is minimal. Ocassionally you need to replace a door lock or something but if your sytems are all new, little will be needed. Expect your hot water heater to go sometine in the next 10 years! roof and skylight repairs might be necessay but only depending upon age. Get your crwl space between the top floor ceiling and the roof insulated...about $2.00 psf
I do however spend a lot of money impulsively on cosmetic things but that's totally discretionary.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 5, 2009 8:00 AM
This is great- thank you again.
Posted by: stoppedlurking at November 5, 2009 10:09 AM
Much appreciated- thank you again.
Posted by: stoppedlurking at November 5, 2009 10:10 AM
Agree with cmu and dave's estimates. I have same sized house and don't have exact numbers in front of me but recall Gas bill in winter is ~$350-400/mo in winter and ~$35 in summer (steam heat/70-72 degrees/gas stove, grill and dryer), electric ~$130/mo. (higher in summer depending on A/C usage, water ~$350/yr, annual boiler service ~$150. Heat & electric will vary based on what kind of system you have, how much heat you like, how often people are home during the day, level of insulation in your attic, quality of doors and windows, and whether your exposed walls are insulated.
Maintenance is impossible to predict as it depends on the age of your systems the level of ongoing care you give them, and your level of handiness when it comes to fixing stuff, but you should have the ability to cover at least $10K of unexpected surprises in any given year, and budget $2-3K for fixing small issues to prevent them from turning into big stuff.
The temptation to make improvements is pretty powerful, so you may as well make a wish list, price it out, and plan out what you want to do in any given year.
Posted by: wyckoff at November 5, 2009 11:20 AM
I would definitely set aside several thousand dollars in an emergency repair fund, similar to what coops do. CMU or Wasder had a good formula for this, but I can't remember what they said. I would say at least $15,000 and maybe as much as $40,000 in case you need a roof, facade, plaster (in case of flood), boiler, or need to relocate a family of raccoons.
Posted by: mopar at November 5, 2009 5:06 PM
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Posted by: gemstone at November 10, 2009 2:09 AM
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