Staining Regular Oak Floors Dark

You need to wipe off excess stain...you apply it so it soaks into the wood, then you wipe off the excess: do not leave it on too long. Generally, whether you use an oil or waterbase topcoat, the stain is an oil base. Usually stains made for floors have driers in them to speed the dry time...you apply, leave on for 5 minutes, then wipe off the excess.

You can go darker by 'water popping' the floor, by raisin the grain.Wood is a fibrous and has a grain to it...it soaks up water which makes the fibers expand. If you wet smooth, freshly sanded wood you will find it is rougher when it drys…the grain has expanded. Different wood species do this to different degrees.

Water popping opens the grain thereby allowing more stain to penetrate which equals darker stain. This is done after the final sanding of the floor…the floor is uniformly wiped with a wet rag…the grain raises. However, you do not want a rough floor, only opened grain, so one method is to VERY LIGHTLY(!) scuff sand the floor at this point, which has the effect of knocking of the small wood fibers that now protrude from the floor’s the surface which were making the floor feel rough. Sand too much at this point, and you effectively have re-closed the wood fibers defeating the purpose of the water popping.

Key is to wet-wipe the floor uniformly…do it as if you were applying stain…if some areas are dryer/wetter than others the floor may not accept the stain uniformly.

Allow the floor to thoroughly dry before any scuff sanding. Vac or wipe all dust off the floor. Make sure it is really dry and preferably wait 24 hrs before applying the top coat (different seasons/temps/humidity will effect dry time…you can use fans at this stage to dry the stain). Wipe stain on, let penetrate, wipe off…do NOT allow it to site on the surface for a darker effect…you may have issues with the bonding of the finish. The stains made for floors generally are formulated as a seal coat, so you do not have to put on a separate coat of sealer.
You should do tests on spare wood flooring sanded like the rest of your floor, or in an area like a closet where you can make mistakes. If it is STILL not as dark as you want, either reformulate the stain, sand it all over again, and start from scratch….or try another wipe on/wipe off pass of the stain, mindful not to let it forma surface film. These floor stain/sealers are generally made to be one shot deals.

Posted by: Oxygen at October 28, 2009 4:37 PM

Depends on the quality of the waterbase finish and the application...you get what you pay for. There are cheap water finishes that offer poor durability and there are expensive finishes that are state of the art and where the industry is going.

My apartment floors have very old oil modified polyurethane finish. I am refinishing several room and I am using Bona Kemi's Traffic, a clear high end, durable, waterbase finish that costs about $100/gallon. Since my floors are newly finished I cannot comment, but I selected Traffic because of the feedback from professionals and it's durability.
More durable = more $$$.

Posted by: Oxygen at October 28, 2009 4:44 PM

The other benefit of waterbase is floor color.

With oil, you get a nice popping of the grain when the oil saturates the wood, it makes the grain look rich. However, polyurethane darkens radically with age to an orangy amber, some like it and some find it somewhat gross. It can obscure the beauty of the wood as it darkens.

With waterbase, the finish is crystal clear generally and does not darken. Thus, you can show off the natural beauty of the wood if you have a fine wood species with lovely color and/or you can stain the wood to the exact hue, saturation, and tone you want. The color you get is the color the floor will always be (accept for slight changes in wood lightening/darkening/oxidation in time after it’s been sanded, this is species dependent) and the clear varnish topcoat will not be obscured through time by orangy opaque darkening. Many people are used to old dark ploy floors, so they think that is what they like…but once you’ve seen nicely stained wood against old darkened polyurethane, the old poly can look quite gross and dull. You can have a floor of outstandingly beautiful wood and grain in a variety of colors that will compliment your décor.

With waterbase, you stain with an oilbase stain, so you get the oil popping effect of oil in the grain, but the stain doesn’t sit on top of the wood’s surface and form a thick film which darkens. The watebase film goes on clear and stays clear, protecting the wood and giving clarity to it’s beauty, color, and tone.

Posted by: Oxygen at October 28, 2009 4:58 PM

I agree it sounds unorthodox. Regular linseed oil isn’t a particularly fast dryer. With only a cup of turps and pint of stain, the majority of the mix was pure oil. If it was brushed on and not wiped off, it will perform perhaps less like a stain and more like a toner glaze with a thin barrier film on the wood? Usually, stain is vigorously buffed off the floor so as not to leave a film coat, but just so it penetrates the wood pores and seals them (even when straight oil is used as a final finish for furniture, it is applied and wiped off…oil isn’t a varnish and doesn’t harden like a film finish). If you can’t get as dark as you want, try reformulating the stain and/or water popping the floor.

The point of wiping off the stain, particularly for a water base topcoat, is you want the stain to penetrate, color, and also seal the wood….that is, to prevent the waterbase finish from soaking into the wood and from raising the grain. However, traditionally, you do not want a thick oil film layer on the floor as that can create adhesion issues for the waterbase topcoat…check with the manufacturer if they recommend that. Long term durability will be the acid test.

Also, plain linseed oil isn’t a particularly fast dryer. Make certain the stain is dry before a waterbase top coat is used. You do not want the oil/solvents off gassing underneath of a dried/drying water base topcoat. Again, it could lead to compatibility adhesion issues. Time will be the true test: if it works, it works.

If you are experimenting, best to consult with the technical department/chemists of the brand of top coat you are using.

A Leonardo DaVinci masterpiece, The Last Supper started peeling apart and falling off the wall not long after it was painted…he was experimenting with a new technique, but apparently he didn’t do enough testing for bonding issues before committing.

Posted by: Oxygen at October 28, 2009 5:52 PM

You need to be careful with staining pine. Pine generally doesn't accept stains very well...it gets blotchy.

Possibilities;
Either consult with your floor guy or If it is DIY, consider a toner coat or maybe shellac for underneath the finish. You could seal the wood (for example with a darker variety of dewaxed shellac, this would add a deeper tone than the fresh pine Shellac comes in dry flakes, you add denatured alcohol and mix it fresh yourself, it comes in many grades and tints from blond ['clear'] to brown). Then, you could also add colorant to your top coats, either oil or water base, to tint them so they would act like a glaze further darkening the floor. A professional will likely have some other ideas.

http://www.shellac.net/BysakhiButtonPic.html

"This is made from seedlac of Bysakhi origin (summer season from Palas and Ber trees, an April - June/July crop). Bysakhi is a hard resin, warm brownish in color, & prepared in the Hand made process by heating the seedlac in a cotton tube. The resin secretes through the pores of the cloth and the molten shellac is formed into buttons. A good choice for floors."

Posted by: Oxygen at October 30, 2009 4:04 PM

You need to be careful with staining pine. Pine generally doesn't accept stains very well...it gets blotchy.

Possibilities;
Either consult with your floor guy or If it is DIY, consider a toner coat or maybe shellac for underneath the finish. You could seal the wood (for example with a darker variety of dewaxed shellac, this would add a deeper tone than the fresh pine Shellac comes in dry flakes, you add denatured alcohol and mix it fresh yourself, it comes in many grades and tints from blond ['clear'] to brown). Then, you could also add colorant to your top coats, either oil or water base, to tint them so they would act like a glaze further darkening the floor. A professional will likely have some other ideas.

http://www.shellac.net/BysakhiButtonPic.html

"Bysakhi Button
Rich Brown - Warm Cast
A Deep Rich tone for woods like Walnut, Antique Pine, Older or Aged Fir.
Also used to intermix with other button lac to adjust the tone and color.

Buttonlac is a unique shellac product preferred by restorers
and those looking for a very protective shellac finish.
It is superb for French polishing because of its hardness.
The processing of buttonlac polymerizes it, resulting in a very tough material.
Button Lac is the prefered choice for finishing floors, tough & moisture resistant."

"This is made from seedlac of Bysakhi origin (summer season from Palas and Ber trees, an April - June/July crop). Bysakhi is a hard resin, warm brownish in color, & prepared in the Hand made process by heating the seedlac in a cotton tube. The resin secretes through the pores of the cloth and the molten shellac is formed into buttons. A good choice for floors."

Posted by: Oxygen at October 30, 2009 4:05 PM

.....

"Bysakhi Button
Rich Brown - Warm Cast
A Deep Rich tone for woods like Walnut, Antique Pine, Older or Aged Fir.
Also used to intermix with other button lac to adjust the tone and color.

Buttonlac is a unique shellac product preferred by restorers
and those looking for a very protective shellac finish.
It is superb for French polishing because of its hardness.
The processing of buttonlac polymerizes it, resulting in a very tough material.
Button Lac is the prefered choice for finishing floors, tough & moisture resistant."

Posted by: Oxygen at October 30, 2009 4:06 PM

***Pardon the fragmented posts. I wanted to add that shellac is a very good sealer coat, both water base and oil base adhere superbly to it: but make 100% certain you are using DEWAXED shellac. It will not likely give you the problems that staining pine will, do some tests though.

I would not recommend shellac as the TOP COAT however, as it can be damaged by alcohol and also can be affected by water. It will perform excellent as a sealer/toner coat. You may find one of the darker varieties of shellac will darken the floor up sufficiently to your tastes and with a vintage feel....and shellac is an old school wood finish, used for centuries in very high end furniture making. The freshly sanded pine will also naturally darken up a little on its own over time as it ages and is exposed to light. If you want to go darker still, yet stick with waterbase topcoat, you can tint the topcoat a bit with a colorant to shift the tone/hue a little deeper.

Posted by: Oxygen at October 30, 2009 4:24 PM