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October 3, 2009
Shower Advice Needed Urgently
We are going to start building a shower in our bathroom on Monday - a walk in shower with the shower draining out on the tiled floor. Some people we know who have done plumbing and bathroom remodeling work for others are going to help us. They told us they have done this before. However now Im not so certain. Can someone tell me what you put on the bottom of the shower - would wonderboard work ? Thanks !
Comments
Not something to do half-assed and have it leak. Typical handyman special is doing it from scratch, mud/metal mesh, then thinset and tile. Advise against this. There are many pre-made synthetic sheet naterials that are much better, and I'd do research before picking one.
Pre-formed plasticky base is also an option, but it looks ugly.
http://www.extremehowto.com/xh/article.asp?article_id=60342
Posted by: cmu at October 3, 2009 12:00 PM
Do it right with a boxed in concrete - bath... thing (sorry, don't know the definition), but you get the idea. No handyman special as the above stated.
Posted by: CookieCutterBrownstone at October 3, 2009 12:33 PM
You have to put in a lead pan. You don' know what you are doing. Now is not the time to be tighter than a frogs ass.
This requires a licensed and insured professional. Other wise you will have leaks all over the place/
I wish you the best of luck.
Posted by: Ysabelle at October 3, 2009 12:53 PM
Don't bother with the lead pan you can get a rubber membrane by the yard at HD or Lowes. That in combination with concrete and mesh/rebar is how you make a base.
I used this guys instructions:
http://www.ontariotile.com/preslope.html
Posted by: modsquad at October 3, 2009 1:07 PM
What if you need to make a custom made base ? Ours is approx 29 inches by 53 inches ?
Posted by: crownheights2007 at October 3, 2009 1:08 PM
Don't forget the alcohol!
Posted by: modsquad at October 3, 2009 1:09 PM
Lead pan is OLD. Don't bother. Fails over time.
The sheet stuff is cut to size, so dimensions are not an issue.
And a competent person could do it themselves, my comment about handymen was about their lack of knowledge, not ability. Even "licenced professionals" in this city may stick to tried and true outdated methods.
Posted by: cmu at October 3, 2009 1:24 PM
CH2007, you are absolutely right to be asking these questions, and I do think you can educate yourself on-line pretty well about the dangers of not doing showers right.
The link provided by CMU is a good start, but I would argue that most licensed and insured contractors still do it the old fashioned way (from scratch a lead liner w/ mud/metal mesh,thinset and tile).
I too, would argue against the lead liner and consider newer-age liner or pan materials. Pre-formed (including slope, drain cut-out, etc.) is the way to go if your shower pan and drain placement conforms to those offered by the manufacturers. On the link from CMU, you will see an add from Schluter, which is the system I used, although I had to form my own pan. The membranes and drain systems they provide convinced me.
And while Wonderboard is an ideal backer for tiles on shower walls and bathroom floors, a shower pan area that is prone to constant moisture and that will eventually get under tiles when grout fails needs special attention. I would ask your contractors what they are doing to guard against this.
I would also pay a lot of attention to the slope of the floor in the areas that will get wet, including the sloping of the floor under the liner if you use a liner instead of a pre-formed pan. This floor should be pre-sloped before the liner is installed, so that any water that gets through to the liner will also drain towards the weep holes that come with conventional drains.
However, what you are describing sounds like it might be something different in that there will be no shower curb. Will the shower water drain into a drain more central to the bathroom? If so, consider carefully.
Posted by: renomandru at October 3, 2009 1:28 PM
Hulu has a show where all they do is DIY bathroom renovations:
http://www.hulu.com/bathroom-renovations
I remember an episode where they mixed concrete for a shower floor. They had a plastic protection layer under the concrete. I think it's the "family bath expansion" series of episodes.
Posted by: bkrules at October 3, 2009 2:48 PM
There are still many buildings in Manhattan that I work in that require field-fabricated lead pans on all new and replacement shower installations. The truth is that, like anything else, if exposed to enough water, they can wear away over time and leak. But they shouldn't see much water if the tile work is done well and maintained. There are boatloads of 50-plus-year lead pan shower installations still in use all over the city.
The other option is to use a pvc or vinyl liner, which is much easier to work with but hasn't got the history that lead does.
Using either material, the installation will require riding up a minimum of 12" on the shower walls. That means you'll haver to make inside corners with your lining.
Those are the weakest points of the pan. If you're going to DIY it, make sure you have this part figured out before you begin. Many career plumbers can't get this right. It can be very difficult.
Make sure you're using a drain assembly compatible with the installation. It should have a clamping ring with channels to deal with any water that might get through the tile to reach the drain.
Posted by: Master Plvmber at October 3, 2009 2:49 PM
also remember that when you cast the floor over the shower liner, you have to pitch the floor down to the drain in all locations..or you will have puddles everywhere, with the accompanying problems from standing water
Posted by: eman1234 at October 3, 2009 6:46 PM
Install a rubber membrane over the subfloor being careful to fold up the corners and fun it up the wall several inches (the wonderboard on the wall will cover the nail heads and the top of the membrane. - keep the wonderboard a quarter of an inch off the floor).
have a professional lay a mud bed over the membrane properly sloped toward the drain.
install the wall wonderboard.
Lat tile in thinset - floor first - then walls.
Posted by: SenatorStreet at October 4, 2009 9:12 AM
There's a new technology out that uses a material that is cut to fit and then the joints are taped similar to wallboard joints. It works so well that you could run the water right on top of it without tile!!!
It's an orange color material and you can find it on the This Old House website somewhere. It's also been featured on Ask this Old House.
Otherwise get a prefab copper or rubber liner installed PROFESSIONALLY.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 5, 2009 8:13 AM
I bought one of those rather expensive shower bases recently Home Depot sells that are meant to be tiled over. It was made of a plastic membrane and was much lighter than I'd expected. It hasn't leaked so far . . . time will tell.
Posted by: IronBalls at October 6, 2009 4:03 PM
I bought one of those rather expensive shower bases recently Home Depot sells that are meant to be tiled over. It was made of a plastic membrane and was much lighter than I'd expected. It hasn't leaked so far . . . time will tell.
Posted by: IronBalls at October 6, 2009 4:03 PM
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